The U.S. will mark the anniversary of the January 6 insurrection on Saturday, a milestone that will confer upon the reality-dwelling citizenry a grim reminder of the potency of propaganda and how quickly it can warp perception when introduced into the public square.

Just three years ago, most of the country watched with dismay and horror as a violent MAGA mob beat back authorities and stormed the country’s citadel of democracy. The Donald Trump-incited crush of disillusioned rioters, fueled by a stream of fantastical lies, believed that the 2020 election had been stolen by sinister forces working to undermine the democratic election.

Of course, not only was their belief flatly incorrect, but evidence later emerged indicating that it was Trump who, in fact, had tried to subvert democracy.

Facts, however, have little bearing on the sentiment inside the Republican Party, which has been fed a steady diet of lies and half-truths by Fox News and the rest of the sprawling right-wing media machine. To wit, the false notion that Joe Biden nefariously stole the 2020 election is now widely shared inside the GOP. A CNN poll conducted over the summer found that nearly 70% of Republicans believe Biden’s win was not legitimate, a number that has continued to tick up.

  • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    211
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    IMO, this event was worse for America and the world than 9/11. What goodwill and credibility can America exercise on the world stage when Trump can incite a violent attack on the US Congress, and he is still the front runner?

    If he had convinced the Capital Police to get rid of the metal detectors, as he tried to do, America would be under a Trump dictatorship right now.

    As if his capitulation to Russia, Saudi Arabia, China, or North Korea shouldn’t immediately disqualify him, or the millions of dollars he personally received from foreign governments during his presidency.

    • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      79
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s a matter of degrees … American establishment wants fascism, they are just taking their time getting there.

      The problem isn’t Trump, Trump is an idiot and dime a dozen, once he dies, there will be another idiot just like him that the establishment will court and push into our faces every day.

      The problem are the millionaires and billionaires of America that are funding all this crap and keep maintaining it all. If all this relied on Trump’s charisma, it would have died out a long time ago … it’s just a huge marketing machine that keeps it afloat.

      As long as we keep seeing these headlines, no matter if it’s Trump or someone else … it’s just a sign that the wealthy want fascism to keep growing because they know it will mean a win fall for them at the cost of all of us.

      Thanks America … you’re doing a bang up job.

      • Eldritch@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        39
        ·
        1 year ago

        As an American. You are 100% spot on. Had Republicans not enabled and helped trump at every step. He would have gotten nothing accomplished. They were there every hour of every day ready to lick his greasy taint in an effort to please their voters. It could be any idiot. It just happened to be Trump

        • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          And what’s sad is blatant and unapologetic mass murdering warhawks like Cheney’s daughter opposed him, and the idiot MAGA flock call her a traitor. Unbelievable.

      • Cuttlefish1111@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        With many other countries I could agree. But America is the global reserve currency and basically the world’s police. For the theocrats pushing a takeover it wouldn’t end well. F35s and other highly technical defense system would crumble. Our soft power would evaporate overnight. Many Billionaires would wake up only to find their billions are worth a fraction. Sounds Improbable.

        • crusa187@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          19
          ·
          1 year ago

          This is a pretty solid take imho, but I’m not sure the ultra wealthy see it that way. Look at how deluded they show themselves to be when there isn’t a PR handler in the mix to filter their thoughts on platforms like Xitter. Their ego and hubris from living in the alternate reality their great wealth affords them presents tremendous risk in this situation.

          • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            14
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I believe this.

            I’m a bit older (40+) and when I was in college, it was pretty popular for students from more prestigious colleges to be paying students at my college and other less prestigious colleges to do original research for them. Plagiarism with extra steps and pay. The poor student gets paid, and the rich student gets to put their name on it and get the grade.

            I think the elite have been buying their credentials for too long and fully believe their own lies. They love the smell of their own farts, as it were.

            They are so many generations removed from real knowledge about international markets and so on that there is real possibility that they will make the whole house of cards collapse in hubris.

            • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              Well, you saw it recently with the two actresses who were charged with paying a fixer to get their children into Ivy League schools. They are rich. Very rich. Their kids didn’t need to go to any school. It’s about the PRESTIGE and CONNECTIONS.

              That drunken date rapist Kavanaugh would’ve had an easy life, regardless of anything he did. But his family wanted bragging rights. That’s the way all these fucks are.

          • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            There are two types of wealthy people … those who have all the power and those that want all the power

            Those already in power probably don’t want change … but those that don’t have it all certainly would like to see change and a reshuffling of wealth and the chance of gaining control of more, or even everything.

            Every major change in history never really changed anything … all it ever does is change the actors and players - old wealth gets removed by new wealth - old elites are replaced by new elites

            American political and military power will probably always stay the same for the foreseeable future … the question is who will get the chance to sit at the top and rule the world.

      • jmp242@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        1 year ago

        What confuses me is that they seem to miss that historically fascists or authoritarians more generally don’t actually pander to the wealthy once they have power, and many wealthy suddenly end up dead or missing. Look at Xi and Putin for instance. Or history.

        • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          It’s a rat cage and everyone is chasing after the hunk of cheese above our cage … the ones closest to the top believe that by climbing on those below them, they can reach higher … and those close to the top are desperately trying to pull down the one just above them to gain that extra bit of chance of going up one more level.

          The ultra wealthy at the top may or may not want fascism … but those just below them might because they believe in changing the guard, reshuffling the wealth and giving a new group of a privileged people a chance … like you say, every big political authoritarian change came at the cost of removing many wealthy people, but it also meant a new crop of people to fill the gaps.

      • GroundedGator@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        1 year ago

        They finally found their useful idiot who was capable of energizing a portion of the population who previously didn’t believe voting was important.

        The majority of the GOP in office will continue to bend the knee to anyone they view to have the same power. And I fear eventually we will see the same action taken on the left.

        Power is the most addictive drug.

      • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        People don’t realize they tried this 100 years ago, with Smedley Butler. It was called “The Business Plot.” But Butler was honorable, and snitched. Absolutely nothing was done, and most people don’t know who Butler is. He was at the time THE most decorated Marine in history. But he fucked with the money, and they buried him and his legacy. I tweeted Oliver Stone 10 years ago that he should make a biopic about Butler.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

            • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Neither did I. After watching what I thought was just another fiction thriller, I realized it was based on actual events …

              Robert De Niro plays the character ‘Gilbert Dillenbeck’, a Marine veteran based on Marine Corps General Smedley Butler

              And after just reading the cast list again … holy crap this film has a big list of familiar actors - Christian Bale, Margot Robbie, Anya Taylor-Joy, Chris Rock, Mike Myers, Taylor Swift, Zoe Saldana, Rami Malek, Robert DeNiro

              And like I mentioned, you are right, more people should know about this important bit of history which is probably why all these big actors wanted to play in this to promote this film and its story.

      • BigilusDickilus@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s so stupid though. The German conservative aristocracy wanted fascism (mainly because they were incredibly unsettled by the post WWI shake ups and terrified of bolshevism) and thought they could control the Nazis to their own ends. That pretty much immediately backfired on them. These people have to see that…

      • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        19
        ·
        1 year ago

        99% of our voting population is going to vote team color no matter what. They don’t care that Biden hasn’t done anything meaningful to put a stop to this, and they’ll argue with me tooth and nail that electing him is a moral imperative anyway.

        Fascism is inevitable now.

        • NOPper@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          ·
          1 year ago

          Seriously though, what other choice do I have with my vote? The reality is we live in a two party system, I have zero power to change it by voting random 3rd party candidates that will never get the support, and the other guy is even worse.

          • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            16
            ·
            1 year ago

            This is the logic that’s given us a 40-year slide into fascism and a near total loss of power.

            I’m sorry, but if you’re unwilling to change, you can’t expect things to change. You can look at the last two decades and see the results of electing do-nothing Democrats.

            In fact, read up on Idaho for the next step in crises that Democrats are simply going to ignore.

            • jasondj@ttrpg.network
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              This is the logic that got us Bush.

              Nader’s vote total was several times higher than Bush’s margin in both Florida and New Hampshire. Him off the ballot in either of those states would’ve made Gore v Bush unnecessary as Gore would’ve been a clear winner.

              It also earned Clinton’s election with Perot being the Republican spoiler for Dole in 96, though I don’t remember which states.

              Third parties will always be a spoiler until voting reform happens and plurality winner-takes-all ends.

                • jasondj@ttrpg.network
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  10
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Gore should’ve won. It’s plainly obvious that there were multiple plan-Bs to assure Bush’s win, between his brothers obviously flawed ballots and the Supreme Court and who knows what else never made national news.

                  It’s like gerrymandering, voter suppression (by means of strategically making polling places in predominantly Democratic areas more crowded making and blocking mail ballots/early voting difficult if not impossible), and voter purges aren’t enough of a leg up for them…we then find out that they actually have multiple layers of plans to help get a victory one way or the other.

                  We saw it in 2000, and we saw it in 2020. And we saw how deep the rabbit hole goes when we realized that by crippling the USPS to prevent mail voting, they managed to delay getting their own fake ballots into DC in time.

                  At what point do we stop calling what the GOP does “politics” and start actually calling it “organized crime”?

            • NOPper@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              9
              ·
              1 year ago

              Got it, my problem is I’m not applying enough hopes and dreams that the entire system changes because I voted for a write-in.

              My plan is to keep voting in local candidates for local offices that are working to make the changes I’d love to see, but until then there’s absolutely nothing I can do at a national level but try to keep the openly evil guy from winning by voting for the most likely other option. If you have a better plan that has a chance of changing anything THIS election cycle, I’d love to hear it and be educated. Honestly, I would!

              • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Local level

                This is the only power you have now, and you should absolutely vote progressive locally if a candidate actually has a progressive record. (And many Dems don’t there either.)

                At the national level, it’s too late. It doesn’t matter how you vote now. The simple fact is that Biden needs many people to vote for him that are finding it too expensive to live under his governance, and as we saw with Obama trying to hand of the reins to Hillary, that kind of record isn’t something the public is going to buy. When Obama ignored the middle class, they didn’t care that Trump was a racist piece of shit. They only cared that he was the candidate of change.

                They’re not going to care that Trump or DeSantis are fascist. They’re going to care that they’re not Biden, and therefore (in the minds of these voters) more likely to make a change that makes their individual lives easier.

                • NOPper@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  8
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Right, so I suck it up and vote Biden so my vote can at least try to counter someone voting the actual proclaimed dictator in the meantime, correct? We’re back to square 1 until any of my preferred local candidates can get to the national level and hopefully push some real change. In the meantime I do the best I can and talk to people about what we could be doing better. Democracy yo. 🤷‍♂️

        • Yeah but one half went to college and formed their opinions in open debate and discussion, graded work, with accomplished authors and scholars, the professors, and their peers. Republicans did their own research or went to the school of “hard knocks.”

          It’s supposed to be that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man his king. In the land of Republicans they would poke out the man’s eye and claim sight is deep state propaganda. “Don’t look up!”

          • ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I would argue that those who graduated from the school of hard knocks are why we have labor laws and unions. It wasn’t college educated people who were the drive behind unions.

            Strike: Strikes in the United States

            The first nationwide strike occurred in 1877, when railroad workers struck in the middle of an economic depression. With the advent in the 1880s of such labor organizations as the Knights of Labor and the American Federation of Labor, strikes became more frequent. Some of the more important industry-wide strikes in the United States have been those waged by the railroad employees in 1877 and 1894, by the United Mine Workers in 1902 and 1946–47, by the steel workers in 1919, 1937, 1952, and 1959, and by the auto workers in 1937 and 1946. Important local strikes have included those of the Western Federation of Miners in the early 20th cent. and of the Teamsters Union in Minneapolis in 1934.

            I highly doubt railroad workers, miners, steel workers, and auto workers all had post-secondary education. If it wasn’t for them striking and pushing for better wages. We would be far worse off. Without better wages, post-secondary education would be a pipe dream for money.

            National Association for the Protection of Labour

            The National Association for the Protection of Labour was one of the first attempts at creating a national trade union centre in the United Kingdom. The organization was established in July, 1830 by John Doherty, after an apparently unsuccessful attempt to create a similar national presence with the National Union of Cotton-spinners.

            John Doherty (trade unionist)

            Doherty began his career as a cotton spinner as a child worker just ten years old in his home town of Buncrana…Following Doherty’s relocation to Manchester, it was not long before he was involved with the factory workers’ growing movement for higher wages and better conditions. In 1818 he was a leading figure in the spinners’ strike and was imprisoned for two years. Rather than deterring Doherty this merely enhanced his desire to obtain better conditions for himself and his fellow workers and he continued to be an active member of the Amalgamated Association of Operative Cotton Spinners following his release.

            I doubt someone who had been working since ten years old in 1800s would have any education other than an extremely basic one. Yet, John Doherty pushed to create a national union to fight for a better future.

            What Made the Battle of Blair Mountain the Largest Labor Uprising in American History

            Despite the ultimate surrender, one of the many bits of Blair Mountain history that continues to stick out is the diversity of the miner’s army. In 1921, coal company towns were segregated, and Brown v. Board of Education was decades away. However, Wilma Steele, a board member of the West Virginia Mine Wars Museum, says Matewan was one of the only towns in the United States where Black and white children, most commonly Polish, Hungarian and Italian immigrants, went to school together. Other miners were white Appalachian hill folk. Most all were kept apart in order to prevent organization and unionization. It didn’t work. Keeney recalls one incident during the Mine Wars, Black and white miners held cafeteria workers at gunpoint until they were all served food in the same room, and refused to be separated for meals.

            Seems like uneducated coal miners were far more progressive.

            I will agree that post-secondary education has been a overall boon for progressive politics and for a better society. It can be argued that the chance to get post-secondary education would never be possible if it wasn’t those who graduated from the school of hard knocks. It wasn’t until the uneducated working class fought for better a living, post-secondary education was allowed for those with money.

            • Yeah, you’re right, some. It was trial lawyers and Ivy Leaguers who won labor rights in America, they argued the cases in courts and in public, and in Congress. Upton Sinclair went to Columbia. FDR went to Harvard and Columbia Law. Who organized the strikes?

              • ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Union Activists such as:

                César Chávez - Folk hero and symbol of hope who organized a union of farm workers.

                Chávez attended more than 36 schools before dropping out after eighth grade.

                Eugene V. Debs - Apostle of industrial unionism.

                Debs was born on Nov. 5, 1855, in Terre Haute, Ind., the son of Marguerite Bettrich and Jean Daniel Debs, Alsatian immigrants and retail grocers. At 16, he left school to work as a paint scraper in the Terre Haute railroad yards and quickly rose to a job as a locomotive fireman.

                William Green - Former AFL president who moved the federation toward “social reform unionism.”

                Born in Coshocton, Ohio, in 1873, into an English and Welsh immigrant coal-mining family, Green began working as an underground coal miner when he was 16.

                Mother Jones - “The most dangerous woman in America.”

                In her early 20s, she moved to Chicago, where she worked as a dressmaker, and then to Memphis, Tenn., where she met and married George Jones, a skilled iron molder and staunch unionist.

                Lucy Randolph Mason - Social reformer dedicated to workers’ rights and racial justice.

                Mason began her social reform work in Richmond, Va., where she had spent her childhood. As a young girl in her 20s, she supported herself by working as a stenographer but devoted much of her free time to volunteer social service work and political activities on behalf of women’s suffrage.

                A. Philip Randolph - Organized the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters and fought discrimination in national defense.

                Asa and his brother, James, were superior students. The Randolph brothers attended the Cookman Institute in East Jacksonville, for years the only academic high school for African Americans in Florida. Asa excelled in literature, drama and public speaking; starred on the school’s baseball team; sang solos with its choir; and was valedictorian of the 1907 graduating class. After graduation, Randolph worked odd jobs and devoted his time to singing, acting and reading.

                None of these people had any post-secondary education yet were major players of the labor movement.

                Post-secondary education doesn’t always equal progressive politics. There is the Chicago School of Economics, which according to Paul Douglas:

                “…I was disconcerted to find that the economic and political conservatives had acquired almost complete dominance over my department and taught that market decisions were always right and profit values the supreme ones… The opinions of my colleagues would have confined government to the eighteenth-century functions of justice, police, and arms, which I thought had been insufficient even for that time and were certainly so for ours. These men would neither use statistical data to develop economic theory nor accept critical analysis of the economic system… (Frank) Knight was now openly hostile, and his disciples seemed to be everywhere. If I stayed, it would be in an unfriendly environment.”

                There is also conservative post-secondary educational institutes such as: Brigham Young University, Liberty University, Bob Jones University, etc.

                While post-secondary education has been a tremendous boon. I really don’t care if they have post-secondary education or dropped out of elementary school. What metric we should be using is are people able to see the injustices in the world.

          • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Yeah but one half went to college

            And then they sat through 2-4 decades of Democrats actively voting against the interests of their constituents, ignored it, and vote for them anyway despite the evidence right in front of their eyes.

            Democrats aren’t our friends. They stab us in the back while Republicans stab us in the front.

            • jmp242@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              1 year ago

              We vote for Democrats because the alternative is getting Republicans. The voting system doesn’t let third parties win. I wish it did. The lesser of two evils is still less evil inflicted on me at the end of the day.

              • PopularUsername@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                1 year ago

                If Democrats lost because people on the left refused to vote for them, they would be forced to change. Problem is everyone claims each election is an existential crisis (doubtful) so you’re never allowed to withhold a vote or vote third party.

    • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      22
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nothing personal against Mike Pence, but there’s a part of me that thinks it would have been better if he’d gotten in that car and been disappeared.

      An assassinated vice president would have forced Biden to crack down on fascism harder.

      But without effective leadership, the problem’s gotten worse.

        • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          I don’t think that’s accurate.

          Every other aspect of the attack was unsuccessful, and not only that, but pathetically so. But if they’d manage to assassinate a VP, Biden and his administration would not have been able to simply ignore it. They would have had to act, even if it pisses off the billionaires.

          • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            21
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Pence stopped Trump’s group delivering the fake electors to steal the election. If Pence disappeared Trump would have never left office.

            Pence made the the last minute stand to save our country. Terrible viewpoints and politics, but at the end he did his job

            • Uglyhead@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              19
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Because Dan “Potatoe” Quayle told him to not go along with the coup.

              Mike fucking Pence and Dan fucking Potatoe Quayle saved our Democracy and the US Democratic Republic.

              What a timeline.

              Still,… there are many many timelines where it worked, Trump is the Orange King, and I’m dead now from being put up against a wall; so I’ve got that going for me, which is nice.

          • GroundedGator@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            1 year ago

            If they would have assassinated Pence on J6, before the certification, someone else would have stepped in, most likely Grassley. He would have accepted the alternate slate of electors and Biden would not be president.

      • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Man, I had forgotten about that car thing. I don’t know. They wouldn’t have harmed him. They would have delayed him enough that he couldn’t certify the vote. Then Trump had plans to use the military to seize voting machines (after which he would have obviously lied about whatever his goons found).

        The Joint Chiefs memo was very comforting regarding the transition but it came on January 12th and cited the Congressional certification in saying “we will evict him with force on January 21.” If the certification didn’t happen, the transition and the election would have remained uncertain.

        I think there is very little appetite in Washington for such uncertainty, but one side of the aisle is treasonous and would gladly acquiesce.

    • ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      when Trump can incite a violent attack on the US Congress, and he is still the front runner?

      remember Adolf Hitler tried to start an insurrection, got caught, thrown in jail, wrote a book, and then got elected and started World War 2.

      And remember how much Trump loves dictators.

    • S_204@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Ya but…9/11 was brown people, 1/6 was white people.

      There is absolutely a difference in how Americans view the people involved. That’s only been reinforced with this incident.

    • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      The ONE, and ONLY thing that stopped the coup was Pence growing a backbone at the exact time it mattered. It wasn’t out of honor or duty, it was out of narcissism. He didn’t want to be known forever as the man who facilitated The Corporate Theocracy of America.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      66
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      imo the genocide in Gaza is far worse

      America is geopolitically isolated on its support for Israel, to the point where it’s rapidly accelerating the collapse of its hegemony. We might lose Turkey in NATO, we might lose Egypt’s cooperation on migration, dedollarization is accelerating, normalization between Israel and the surrounding neighbors is dead, international law is a joke, and this is happening at the same time that French imperialism in Africa is also collapsing with coups and revolts.

      It’s Joever

      EDIT Downvoting me won’t bring back American prestige you fuckin libs. What is Biden going to do when South Africa’s suit against Israel finds them guilty of the crime of genocide? When America is compelled by international law to take available actions to stop genocide?

      I’ll tell you what he’ll do! Nothing. When he does, the rest of the world is going to continue leaving America behind. Good riddance. 😜

      • Eldritch@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        35
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        They’re not down voting you because they’re liberals. They’re down vote you because you’re likely an accelerationis hypocrite. With shitty unconstructive hot takes and zero actual solutions.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          11
          ·
          1 year ago

          An accelerationist would advocate voting for Trump to hasten to collapse of America. I’m not doing that. I’m just not voting for Biden.

          Hell, I’m voting down ticket Democrat in case Trump wins and they need to obstruct his agenda! Hardly accelerationism.

        • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          25
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          I have a proposal, stop sending weapons to the fucking genocide, stop trying to use the military to protect a genocide. It’s not a poster online doing this, it’s our fucking government accelerating things you twat.

          Love when a quisling shows up to say I’m the threat

          • Eldritch@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            22
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Here’s a proposal for you. As a non linenist Marxist and socialist I agree. As do many Democrats and liberals even. The thing is, our goals have to be realistic and achievable. And realistically what’s achievable is likely either a Biden or Trump presidency. And believe me things will be worse under Trump. For democrats to be able to make any sort of positive change they have to be in control. Even if that means a flawed candidate like Biden.

            Had I seen the name of the person I replied to. I either probably would have just downloaded and not replied. And definitely would not have used the term likely hypocrite. It’s a 100% thing with them. And likely with a twat like yourself. U ml are like perpetual 10-year-olds. Your own worst enemies and saboteurs. And a threat to everyone else.

          • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Sadly, it’s more complicated than that. See, you have multi-billionaire shareholders in the companies manufacturing the weapons we’re selling, and they will absolutely sue the federal government over lost profits, and The Federalist Society SCOTUS stooges currently in office will rule in their favor. Thanks, Capitalism.

        • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          18
          ·
          1 year ago

          America is the only country in the world with a nuclear first strike policy, and to have used nuclear weapons on civilians. The best thing that can happen for the rest of the world is for it to fall to internal power struggles.

            • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              12
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              I have, and I would say that the circumstances/implications are very different. One was the unforseen negative health impacts of a nuclear test site the other was the use of nuclear weapons on two population centers.

              Also that’s whataboutism I think lol. We’re talkin about US crimes

                • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  12
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Which is pivoting to USSR bad propaganda in a thread about how the real issue in everyones minds should be the ongoing genocide in occupied Palestine?

                  Yeah I’m calling that whataboutism lmao

      • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        You’re telling the truth. The only thing Israel is to the US is a another military staging area if shit kicks off in The Middle East. That’s it. That said, Biden is not the entire admisistration. No President is. It takes Congress to change this shit, and way too many defense contrators and their shareholders are making way too much money for this to change.

        And also, I can’t remember the exact quote, and I’m paraphrasing, is “People tell you they want to hear the truth, but they’ll hate you for saying it.”

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          As we saw in 2008 and 2020, it requires such an impossibly huge majority to change anything that it’s a pipedream. Structurally impossible.

      • PopularUsername@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        1 year ago

        As an outsider, I find American obsession over Jan 6th to be absolutely bizarre. At worst it was a riot. How exactly is a riot at the capital going to cause a coup? I’m guessing you too probably have overblown Jan 6th concerns but peoples response to your comment only confirms my thoughts. People are so entrenched in maintaining the “most dangerous thing since the civil war” that they are willing to consume their own over the smallest disagreements.

        Also, these people claiming Trump would be worse in Gaza, but it’s not clear the US would be worse in Gaza if Trump won, the US has put up zero road blocks currently and with Trump in the Whitehouse the democrats would actually push back against the genocide because Trump is now president. Plus more negative press from the corporate media, again, because Trump is in charge. Not saying it’s the most likely case, but it can be argued.

        • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Yeah the riot had no realistic chance of success. A much more realistic coup will be one done by the 6-3 Supreme Court!

          I still think it’s fair to call them insurrectionists and treat them as such, but it was hardly “worse for America and the world than 9/11”

  • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    128
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Three years later, the ring leader and main benefactor is still free and openly lying.

    This country is a joke. Literally incapable of defending itself from the inside. The US is beyond pathetic and will go down in history as such. We are so capable yet choose corruption.

    • Nudding@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      75
      arrow-down
      16
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      My guy, a country founded on the backs of a native American genocide and then 300 years of slavery, that decrees freedom above all else? You’ve never not been a joke.

      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        My guy, the goodness or badness of the country says NOTHING to refute my point that it is presently utterly and completely failing to defend itself from the inside.

    • pimento64@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      And of course you get put on every watchlist in the country if you say people should just handle the Donald Trump problem directly and Shinzo Abe him. We do the most to protect that man from lynch mobs even though he was more than willing to use them. And for the record, I’m neither going to murder the man nor incite anyone else to do so, it’s impossible to get away with and I don’t have the balls even if I wasn’t scared of prison, but I guarantee there would be very few tears shed if it did happen and nobody of worth would lose any sleep.

      • tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        35
        ·
        1 year ago

        I really hope no one kills him. I’m not sure I’d be able to live another couple of decades with people treating him like a fucking martyr.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          ·
          1 year ago

          He will be a martyr even if he dies at 120 of natural causes in the lap of luxury. The cult has already formed. When he dies, he will ascend and they will wait for his return… or they’ll say he never died at all like JFK, Jr.

          • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            15
            ·
            1 year ago

            And in a couple hundred years there’s gonna be a ladder sitting on Mar a Lago because the various sects of the Trumpian religion can’t agree on who should move it.

            Well, if Florida’s not underwater by then.

        • whofearsthenight@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          God. We already have to deal with them idolizing fucking Reagan. And yeah, as long as he is alive and not in office, the chances he goes to jail go up every day.

      • Pennomi@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        1 year ago

        Political assassination gets rid of a figurehead but revitalizes the entire movement. It’s not a smart thing to do if you want to actually fix problems.

        • CodeName@infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          That’s true but there isn’t anyone waiting in the wings who can capture the reactionary imagination like trump. They’ve been trying and they always come up short. I don’t get it because I think trump is an abhorrent waste of space, but his people just love the shit out of him. Without him the entire right fractures and starts infighting.

          • Pennomi@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            OR that becomes the event that unifies the right wing together. Don’t underestimate the power of a martyr.

      • Pons_Aelius@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        handle the Donald Trump problem directly and Shinzo Abe him.

        45 US presidents, 10 assassination attempts with 4 being successful.

        A major part of the problems the USA faces is because they believe political problems (well, most problems really) can be solved with the gun.

        • tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          I don’t know if the problem would be better of not, but political assassination isn’t exactly exclusive to the US. There have been several in Japan, and the most recent on against Abe (done with a gun I might add) actually went a long way to solving the issues that the assassin had with the LDP, namely that the government had a lot of people taking money from the moonies.

          • Pons_Aelius@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            When I was a kid, saying Timmy does it too, was never a strong argument even then.

            But seriously, compared the other Anglo countries countries the US has an issue with political violence. IIRC, there has never been an attempt against a Can, Aus or NZ leader.

      • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Don’t worry. My bet is he’ll get the Chauvin treatment before getting transferred to country club prison.

  • BeautifulMind ♾️@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    78
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Their continued refusal to acknowledge that it was a crime, and the normalization of criminal conspiracy and use of political violence to chill efforts to hold people accountable… all amounts to organized crime masquerading as legitimate politics

  • 🖖USS-Ethernet@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    58
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    I’m still shocked to this day that police weren’t mowing people down as they tried to force their way in. By not doing so, they basically said, “this is fine” IMO.

    • splicerslicer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      56
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Some of them on camera got caught removing the barriers and ushering them in.

      “Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses”

      • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        43
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s clear some people haven’t seen the videos that have come out: quite a few people were let in by police. There is also some number of “arrested” people who turned out to be police and there is some evidence of them agitating the crowd.

        I’ve got to admit, having seen similar tactics at the G20 protests in Toronto that resulted in total authoritarian overreaction, I’m now reading this telling of Jan 6 as an insurrection with skepticism.

        • S_204@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          19
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          LoL. This is the stupidity that you get from watching Fox News and their ilk. Totally debased from reality.

          • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            34
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I don’t watch Fox News, nor am I American.

            It doesn’t take a genius to see Jan 6 is more complicated than “chuds attacked the capitol”. “Lefty” mainstream media in America is just a different flavour of neoliberal shit slung by an opposing oligarch. American politics and media are just IRL WWE but with actual stakes and these psychopaths on all sides don’t care who they hurt.

            Examples of the IRL WWE in action on the “left”: Kyle Rittenhouse, Nick Sandmann, Johnny Depp. On the “right”: election interference, welfare queens, Planned Parenthood rumors.

            As hard as this will be for you to accept, you’re being sold lies just the same as the people you mock for being uninformed.

            I’d rather take a principled stance here and protect people’s rights even if I find those people and their actions distasteful, than create a precedent and make those rights harder to protect and uphold later. Some of what happened here is entrapment and its bullshit.

        • VoterFrog@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          So this was a left wing plot and for the first several hours, as Republicans begged Trump to do literally anything and he refused, he was actually doing what in your mind? Fighting a hidden battle against the deep state? All evidence suggests that Trump was more than OK with what was happening as it furthered his goals and supported his many other schemes of fraud, deception, and intimidation in order to remain in power.

            • VoterFrog@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Sure lol. Plenty of Republicans have blamed Antifa. But call it what you want, left wing plot, deep state plot, whatever. Whatever it is, it must be a master class in false flag operations considering it played right into everything that Trump had been broadcasting, desiring, and preparing for. They got him to play right along, vocally support the rioters, and withhold any assistance for the targets? Truly the greatest conspiracy of all time.

            • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.

        • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          I can’t tell if you’re agitating on the side of the insurrectionist traitors, or just stating facts. But there were collaborators on the side of the defenders. Multiple law enforcement and active military members have been arrested and charged for their participation of the insurrection.

        • TheJims@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          So you’re saying the Police are complicit with Trump and his violent right wing extremists?

        • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          19
          ·
          1 year ago

          I watched it live. the more aggressive chuds are bad guys, but so are Congress and the capitol police and federal prosecutors and the fuckin media. letting the chuds go is good precedent for my freedom. siding with the police state is bad for my freedom. I don’t need to agree with the chuds to keep shouting “fuck the police”

          • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            13
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I don’t need to agree with the chuds to keep shouting “fuck the police”

            This is exactly where I’m at. Taking a principled stance here means we protect our own rights down the road, which I think are far more valuable than jailing some gullible idiots.

    • Facebones@reddthat.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      47
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      If it had been a liberal mob, we’d be marking the anniversary of the January 6 massacre, and it’d be a holiday for Republicans.

    • TheMightyCanuck@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      This. When I first heard I imagined they’d set up a few MG nests and show they weren’t fucking around. I was quite surprised by how little a reaction, especially from the most gun happy country

  • Zombiepirate@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    52
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    Even the Republicans who admit Trump was at fault for the events of 1/6 still say they’ll vote for him.

    It isn’t about right and wrong to them, its about getting a fascist in the White House to reorder society into their prescribed hierarchy. Different factions have their grudges: trans people & other sexual minorities, POCs, foreigners, religious minorities, and leftists.

    The hatred is what unites them, but they’re too goddamn stupid to see that fascism always eats itself in the end because it constantly needs a new target upon which they can focus their blinding rage.

    • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      It’s extremely blatant at this point and they aren’t trying to hide it. Support for Republicans is support for American fascism and Christian nationalism at this point. We really need to start acting like it. You wouldn’t hire a Nazi. You wouldn’t go on a date with one, or allow one in your bar or invite them to thanksgiving. America could defeat Nazis again without lifting a finger, but everyone is too fucking afraid that uncle Marty might get upset to take direct action in their own lives. So we’ll end up back to fighting them in the streets one day.

      • mydude@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        “When and if fascism comes to America it will not be labelled ‘made in Germany’; it will not be marked with a swastika; it will not even be called fascism; it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism’.”

  • Smacks@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    51
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    My MAGA dad keeps telling me it was an inside job by the Democrats. He’s saying everything was filmed way in advance by actors and everything was peaceful because of this mystical “new evidence” coming out; all the cops were a-part of the FBI, CIA, ect.

    • nutsack@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      my parents are like this. i have never taken them seriously regarding anything

      • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        My sister was a medical lab tech for over 40 years, in a hospital, and she’s a vaccine denier. I can’t understand that. It’s all Fauci’s fault. But she fills her head with fear and hate from Fox every night.

        • Moira_Mayhem@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          We like to pretend being smart or in a demanding skill field somehow makes people immune to propaganda.

          Studies show it doesn’t, and in fact opens up major blind spots that sometimes cause highly intelligent people to be more susceptible outside their fields of expertise.

    • Moira_Mayhem@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      On the other hand, Jan6 finally snapped my dad out of his trump worship and he’s already told the family he’s not voting for him.

      Of course he’s not voting democrat either, just he’s not voting at all.

      Small victory I guess.

        • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          They have Civil War re-enactments in the confederate states. They also fly the confederate flag and say since it was just a battle flag and not the actual confederate flag it isn’t anti American. Refusing to acknowledge that it was a battle flag… against the U.S.

        • S_204@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          They didn’t lose. They got beat but they haven’t lost. They’ve just changed tactics and are taking the long game. Really long but starting to pay off. The ideas survived because America failed to provide the education and opportunities that prevent that type of extremism from flourishing…

  • ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    30
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    The article correctly identifies Fox News and right-wing media as spreading propaganda about Jan. 6th. However, we’ve known Fox News is not a legitimate news source since at least 2000 or earlier. For every article like this, I am internally screaming: ok, but how do we do to fix this?

    The biggest problems seem to be:

    1. Fox News and related right-wing media inoculates viewers against non-extremist sources. They explicitly and implicitly, constantly, tell viewers that other news sources are lying to them and cannot be trusted. When the audience is exposed to actual facts by actual objective reporting, the inoculation kicks in and they immediately reject those facts as liberal lies and conspiracy. Right-wing media frequently also accuses democrats of doing what the GOP is in fact doing in bad faith. Even without evidence, that further undermines legitimate complaints about the GOP’s tactics.

    2. Politicians exploit the audience this propaganda has created, to scapegoat and harden voting habits. The same propaganda outlets constantly find liberal boogeymen - immigrant criminals, “woke” nonsense stories, minor issues with liberal programs in America that they amplify and distort, international stories of left-wing failures of governance. A combination of 1984-style 2-minutes-of-hate, and “but for the grace of God and the GOP go we” fear-mongering.

    3. The GOP has successfully tied itself to religion for a huge voting population, and religion for most people is non-negotiable. “Gods, guns and Trump” signs are not just an anecdotal type of supporter - that marriage is the core of the GOP. Religion awards value based on faith, and that actually means the less these voters question Trump and accept him as part of their faith, the better they feel about him. That’s a huge problem.

    4. There is no required critical thinking training or teaching in schools to help kids understand how to form their own opinions in the midst of essentially information warfare. Schools can’t appear partisan, but to call a spade a spade: Kids are growing up bombarded by propaganda, and by the time they have the facilities to decide for themselves what they think, that environment usually has decided for them.
      .

    My best thoughts for fixing:

    1. For #s 1-2, voters need to keep the senate and presidency and take the house this year (no big deal!), and implement a “news” media fact-checking law. Defamation/libel laws are not enough to stop this type of propaganda. It would be difficult within the First Amendment, but I think a law formalizing what is considered “news” that sets a cap on opinion pieces, unsupported speculation, and reporting of non-verifiable facts would be a start and not unconstitutional. No speech would be prevented, but Fox News’ brand of trash couldn’t be called “news” any longer. The challenge is creating a legal tool that can’t easily be misused to enforce the very authoritarian propaganda it’s trying to prevent.
    2. For #s 1-2 and 4, state governments could introduce a comprehensive critical thinking curriculum for kids. It’s objectively non-partisan to help kids critically assess information in the internet/social media age, so this seems sellable as long as it isn’t politicized.
    3. For #3, I don’t know the best way. I think at least introducing cognitive dissonance showing how different religion tells us to act versus how Trump and company act would be a start, but it’s probably impossible to untangle politics and religion to most on the right.
    • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      1 year ago

      In fact the whole “parents choice” movement is very openly and explicitly about making sure that children are not taught critical thinking or exposed to ideological diversity in school.

      • Xiaz@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        1 year ago

        To continue upon others threads. In theory, on paper. You are correct. In practice, that was left behind decades ago. Back in the 1940s the Christian Right began to coalesce. In the 70s it became a prominent voting bloc. Cut to present day and you have preachers telling their congregation who to vote for because they have a wink and a smile contract. Hurt the people we hate and we will give you power.

        • Mirshe@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          ·
          1 year ago

          It’s more than that - you have none other than the Church of Scientology to blame, partially. Thanks to their Operation Snow White back in the 70s, where Scientologists obtained key positions within the IRS and effectively doxxed thousands of IRS members (with the implicit threat of violence), they managed to maintain tax-free status despite operating as a political entity, and killed an entire investigation into their organization in one fell swoop. This spooked the IRS so goddamn much that it changed their entire approach to dealing with religious organizations entirely, and led to the hands-off approach that got us the Moral Majority in the 80s, and the marriage of the GOP to the American religious right.

      • ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        1 year ago

        Unfortunately, “separation of church and state” is a nice goal but leaves a lot to be desired.

        The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the government from establishing a particular religion (“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”). However, even that relatively narrow prohibition has been interpreted even more narrowly by conservative Supreme Court justices who only thinly veil, if at all, their favoritism to their particular religion.

        Additionally, non-profit orgs are technically prohibited from endorsing candidates and campaigning. However, conservative churches and their pastors frequently give (again) thinly-veiled instructions to vote for Trump or the GOP, without repercussions.

      • PRUSSIA_x86@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        There is, but that only prevents the government from acting as a religious organization. It doesn’t prevent a group of private citizens from deciding to vote only for religious extremists, thereby filling all the lower offices with theocrats who slowly work their way up the chain until until they control the federal government. All the way they pay lip service to religious freedom until they have the numbers and authority to do away with it.

    • whofearsthenight@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      For point 1, that’s absolutely not getting past the 1st amendment, and it really doesn’t matter that it’s called news. People treat their crazy uncle’s conspiracy Facebook posts as “news” and labeling doesn’t really do much if anything to discourage this behavior.

      For the idea of critical thinking and education, this is something that democrats should be campaigning on and promising, although obliquely. It should probably come in the form of increasing funding for schools (MASSIVELY) and then add in media literacy courses and such to the curriculum. Although, that said, there are already schools that do this in some form or fashion, but the problem is that far too many school boards are overrun with nuts, and this ties into point 3…

      Religion being tied to governance is a real, real problem. Teaching kids critical thinking is going to teach a lot of them, especially Republicans and Evangelicals, that they are being fed a steady stream of bullshit. We still have enough religious association that even getting this across to Democrats and left leaning in a major way is going to be tricky.

      On a hopeful note, the most zealous of this population is dying out. Levels of religion have been steadily dropping for a while now. I think as more of this magical thinking dies out, we’re more likely to see positive improvement. Of course, we have to not become a fascist state in the meantime.

  • scripthook@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    25
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    No it’s just poisoning the people that have no logical thinking and believe anything Trump says.

    • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      1 year ago

      You’d be surprised. I know personally people who traditionally support the GOP but despise Trump who believe a bunch of the bullshit around January 6 because they hear it from their circles. Like how Antifa was involved.

        • GelatinGeorge@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          1 year ago

          They would just claim it was to ‘make the them look bad’ or something similar. That’s the beauty of bullshit; it’s like a perpetual avalanche. It’s overwhelming and incredibly difficult to counter.

        • Illuminostro@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Logic has nothing to do with it. It’s pure racism. They’ve been conditioned their whole lives to fear and hate “The Other,” instead of recognizing who’s really fucking them. I.E., the ultra rich.

      • EvilEyedPanda@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’m not a conservative republican, but I do agree not all right wingers are bad, we have a representative democracy because what works for me in my medium sized city dosent work for Matt in New York, or Jerry in BFE Montana. It’s the division that the partisan politics thats truly hurting us all.

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Consider that you inevitably consume some propaganda yourself, but one never can see it, until maybe many years after.

      Those people don’t want to be fools too, but they don’t see it happening.

  • Suavevillain@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    20
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    The narrative around this event has been downplayed so much that it feels like a non factor for Trump. If it was anyone else in trouble for this there wouldn’t be so much debate.

    • Moira_Mayhem@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      If it were 150 years ago Trump and a shitton of his supporters would have already been hanged and we wouldn’t be creeping steadily towards fascism.

      • tygerprints@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        I can’t think of another act so heinous, maybe some that come close. But what makes this one the worst is that it continues to spread poisonous lies throughout our world.

        • Kalysta@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          21
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’m pretty sure Hitler’s takeover of Germany was worse. You still have idiots marching in the streets today claiming to be NAZIs

          Or the insurrection that actually managed to kill thousands of Americans, our Civil War.

          This was horrific, but getting hyperbolic about it just feeds the right wing propaganda machines further.

          • tygerprints@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            1 year ago

            I don’t disagree, but to me Hitler at least had a shred of vision. Trump just wants destruction for all of humanity. To me, trump is much worse in every way. And I not a fan of hitler at all. But I’d rather have Hitler as president, or Jeff Dahmer, instead of that sick mass of putried filth that calls itself trump.

            • Shake747@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              11
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              I get the sense you’re a bit biased here lol. If you think any of these politicians at the top give a shit about you, you’re wrong.

              Trump is just selfish (like most big politicians). You can’t have no vision and a vision for how to destroy mankind at the same time.

              It’s a bit illogical to say you hate insurrectionists and people trying to alter society for their own benefit, and also say “id rather have Hitler as a president”.

              Do you see the irony here?

                • jmp242@sopuli.xyz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  The dangerous thing about Hitler is at least in the beginning he was competent. Trump wasn’t - and so far hasn’t done anything to make me think he’s changed. The thing that has saved us from Trump was his sheer incompetence.

                • Shake747@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Fair enough, I see where you’re coming from. Id suggest though, that selfishness and greed are easy to predict - moreso than radicals whose country was backed into a corner of starvation and depression by the rest of the world.

  • mhague@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    22
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    1 year ago

    I think people are too literal when trying to understand each other. If someone says they believe in god, it means they identify as someone who believes in god. If someone says they think the election was stolen, it means they identify as someone who thinks the election was stolen. You don’t defeat this with direct education / facts, you give these people an out. They need identities that are constructive and based in reality. Friends, family, culture… it all needs to be rewritten. Then they’ll “believe” in reality.

    • Neato@ttrpg.network
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      32
      ·
      1 year ago

      So why don’t they adopt an identity based in reality like the rest of us?

      Is it because they want to hate demographics and the one media that supports that pushes irrational thought because their core components are irrational and it’s easier to control them like that? I’m actually asking, because that’s my best guess.

      • blazeknave@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Unfortunately, yes. Main Street never came back with Wall Street and Hillary never set foot in the rust belt. They’re hurt and afraid. I’m compassion fatigued to give a pass on Nazism but this is their explanation.

        • Facebones@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          Nazis don’t get a pass. People who advocate for violence against people they don’t like don’t get a pass. IDGAF. I’ve tried being open and receptive and all that (this “offramp” idea,) but at least here in the Bible belt all the bigotry and hate is tied directly into the religious suspension of disbelief and they’re not interested in entertaining any ideas that aren’t from their Fox News (or wherever) prophets.