The last time we had a post like this it was filled with a bunch of sealioning from tankies (authoritarian socialists). Be aware that we will be banning any such behavior.
common 196 W
on that thread most comments were downvoted lmao, i even got a comment in the negatives because i called them fascists (they are, doesnt matter if they like the USSR or not)
thanks for cleaning this comm up 👍
edit: someone literally downvoted every single comment in this thread lmao, the fascists are mad
Not sure why, but that happens in a lot of threads. Most threads I see all comments have at least one downvote lol
Naturally, red fascists are sensitive to being called out, since their natural habitat is the internet.
Seriously, how the fuck do we not consider them actual fascists? they support putin, xi and worst of all, bashaar al Kalb. They’re fascists that just want free housing and food.
PS: I’m a socialist myself, i’m not criticizing the left or the ideologies as a whole, just their Stalin circlejerk cult.
It’s such a weird thing. Stalinism is clearly facism. It almost seems like it’s impossible due to the facists fighting themselves
Welfare fascism: fascism with free houses
That’s their entire ideology pretty much.
While we got mass downvoted by them I’m glad I was able to have a sane conversation for once about socialism, without their BS. Its a nice change of pace
thank you for preserving this important history in our minds!
Yes! Fuck authoritarianism, including refusing to acknowledge another’s lived experiences because it doesn’t match up with the “authority” of your own.
We agree on many fronts and should have solidarity. I’ve enjoyed each and every interaction that I’ve had with you.
hi spujb. fucck authoritarianism in all forms !!
hi kate ur so deadass for this
sry idk what that means
means “hi kate ur so real for this”
stop making me feel old!!😭😭😭
Sure, grandma. let’s take you to bed now for your bingo game tomorrow
What is sealioning?
Considering America just became a fascist state, I vote tankies be allowed to post if they have actual tanks they’re willing to donate to the radical militias we’ve obviously all joined.
Fuck yes
Fuck Tankies, Fuck Conservatives.
Fuck everyone who tries to maintain or implement hierarchies.
Conservatives want you to carry on working for them. Talkies just want to change who you work for. Both can get fucked.
Fuck stateism.
Anarchy Baby!
Hierarchies seem like an important structure to have in society.
Yes. Without them there is no justification for inequality. So to the people in power, they are very important.
But incase you genuinely believe that social order is impossible without hierarchies, you should probably read up on stateless societies, communal decision making, and anarchism.
If the goal of society is to put equality above all else then i take your point.
I think horizontal hierarchies are generally better in an organization in terms of motivating people to contribute and give them a sense of equity.
But idk how you avoid the fact that people do have bad ideas, or well intentioned ideas that could start a cascade of delays in project planning for example. People focusing on the excellence at different levels of work is important right? But having a chain of command to maintain vision, timelines, budgets, stakeholders seems to depend on hierarchy.
I think the main rebuttal to that argument is what stops that from happening in a hierarchy? If anything having one makes that more likely, since someone in charge can have a bad idea and no one below them has any real power to stop it. There’s a reason “incompetent boss/manager” is such a common trope. Having a horizontal structure where consensus is prioritized actually helps prevent those sorts of issues, since people who are the most knowledgeable and involved in the process are the ones making those decisions. It’s why group brainstorming sessions are so common, bouncing ideas off of other people involved in a project is extremely useful to help filter or improve bad ideas and build on good ones. Horizontal groups are sort of the natural state that you fall into when collaborating with people when there isn’t an existing rigidly enforced hierarchy between the members.
Idk that kind of sounds like getting rid of circles from society to stop people from driving their cars.
Its a matter of “how much time can each employee spend on one task/project”
Crowdsourcing decision-making can be a good way to make decisions. But complex, time-sensitive, specialized problems need to be handled with many hours of expertise in many different fields like data analytics (essentially predicting the future). Maybe the more specialization thats required, the less laymen input is effective in contributing. People spend their lives interpreting data, and can make fast data-driven decisions that produce the results. From theres it all Game Theory between organizations and its not that crazy that they refuse to concede the competitive edge and let someone else dominate the market. It seems like it would be hard to enforce not making certain decisions data driven.
Getting input from employees that are understanding of the subtleties is probably appreciated but even experts can be unfamiliar with the cadence of the project schedule which is why Change Control is a thing to ensure changes are not delaying or raising costs, or work the changes in with minimal distruption.
If “bosses” arent doing their job then they wont be able to explain to their bosses whats going on for them to make decisions effectively. People at the top dont like incompetency even if they themselves are. Yes bad decisions can come from the top and power corrupts.
I think its clear our government has failed us on many levels but i think banning the abstract structure “hierarchy” is some weak meme shit.
Hierarchies have given us the GenAI bubble so it doesn’t look like they are doing great at rational decision making either.
Hierarchies are not inherently good or bad.
They help where they help and they oppress where they oppress.
They seem to depend on hierarchies but there are decision making processes that do not depend on hierarchies even tho they might resemble them on first glance. You can have a council that makes decisions on a consensual basis, sends revocable delegates to upper level councils. This might seem like representatives as in modern parliaments but the revocable part is important. If they can be called back at any point and the position is temporal from the start, this changes everything. Also decisions should be on the lowest possible level and everything must be voluntary.
a council
delegates
upper level councils
Just confirming, this is a hierarchy. Certainly in your comment a better designed hierarchy, but still a hierarchy
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I work over at the power plant with dicknose here, give me a food!
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okay but tankies aren’t white supremacists and that guy is wearing a screwdriver shirt
Tankies defend things like russian organised genocide during soviet union where they kept doing what hitler tried.
So just like skinheads they are all for human suffering. Arguing over semantics at this point.
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I see the horseshoe theory has spread far and wide.
Because tankies are just red facists~
When that’s your best defense. You’ve already lost.
I live in Northern Europe, so I’m watching the fight and laughing my ass off.
That only makes your argument weaker
lol
Keep licking that boot. My mother’s side of the family was attacked and killed by a horde of Nazis and leninists. That’s right they were working together. Because after all why wouldn’t authoritarians work together when their interests align. And my father’s side of the family had genocide committed against it by the us government. All authoritarian governments whether they are Western or Eastern are bad. And the fact that this is your best answer pathetic. But completely expected and on brand. Never change.
It’s an edit
Well, skinheads aren’t welcome here either I’m hoping. But I had the same reaction as you.
please don’t give the term skinheads to the fascists. nazi punks fuck off ✌️
I know skinheads were originally a workers movement. But here in the states skinheads were white supremacists by the time they got imported. I’m from Dallas, Texas where skinheads were always Nazis and a big problem.
Up with workers, fuck off to Nazis.
“Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice was founded in 1987 by Marcus, a skinhead from New York City. It emerged as a response by suburban adolescents to the bigotry of the growing White Power Movement in 1982. Traditional skinheads (Trads) formed as a way to show that the skinhead subculture was not based on racism and political extremism.”
Skinheads originally weren’t Nazis.
And most Nazis today aren’t skinheads.That one person with the Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice pfp seems alright
Other than the hand tool or the beverage what doss screw driver mean in this context?
punk band notorious for being neo nazis
As far as centrists are concerned, everyone to the left of Netanyahu is a tankie, and everyone to their left is somehow all the way to the right.
Maybe, but most Blåhaj or 196 users are far from being centrists.
In my experience, “tankie” is used in virtually all cases as a pejorative against the left, and not an identifier for actual tankies.
Probably depends on where you hang out most.
Making excuses for Russia or China’s ongoing crimes, and using the US’ crimes as a reason(?!?) for doing so, is usually what brings the term out.
I do not possess a dick but this post made me rock hard. Like, mentally. Gave me a raging brainer.
Gave me a raging brainer.
I am stealing this. This mine now.
I have to be honest. I remembered I’ve heard it before. I stole it from Futurama!
One if my least favorite episodes, too…
Wait! I mean!
Dunno about generally, but in my friend groups the phrases “I’m hard” and “I’m wet” are completely gender neutral and can be used by anyone regardless of presentation or equipment.
I do enjoy raging brainer though.
My friend Jenn refers to this as “having a wide-on.”
Your friend Jenn sounds like fun!
She’s a hoot.
But the character is punching
And the other character isn’t a tankie.
Effectively there’s no difference between tankies and MAGA
If anyone wants to argue. Both want an oppressive rule that brings about very great gains to the society. Certain parts are eradicated.
All in the name of greater good.
More importantly, oppression magically skips over them.
Yes, that is fascism. Funny you ask.
Hey whats a tankie
This is a tankie. Nothing they say is genuine or in good faith. Their agenda is to manipulate and lie because they’re miserable. Feel free to check out their post and comment history if you want to see what a stain on humanity looks like.
I’ll just add one more detail that hasn’t already been said. Although they profess to be left-wing communists, tankies will defend countries like 21st century Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, despite Russia not even pretending to be communist, and in fact being the very worst that crony capitalism has to offer.
Tankies in reality, at least on Lemmy, seem to position themselves primarily as anti-America and anti anything America supports, rather than being for any specific policies associated with communism.
So if youll join me down disinformation avenue, do you think these are largely real people? I only ask because every time i find myself turning back to corporate social media its because the high polarization of all topics by people like that on lemmy.
It seems like a good deterrent to the adoption of FOSS social media if someone were to employ ai to do so, but i can also believe that the first people to transition to FOSS would be highly radicalized people.
Lemmy’s main developers are avowed communists who run one of the tankie instances themselves. I prefer Occam’s razor here. They are what they say they are.
I’m an advocate for defederating all their instances. But it’s because they make the fediverse a worse experience for users and I believe in curated positive spaces (à la the Nazi bar thought experiment) over unfettered free speech. It’s not because I believe they’re a false flag operation or bots.
In case you’re asking out of good faith curiosity:
Tankie is a pejorative (and rightfully so) term for a particular brand of communist/socialist. It’s worth noting that I have nothing against communists or communism in general (even though I don’t agree with it as a political system). A tankie is someone whose standpoint is that communism can do no wrong; anything that went wrong in USSR and China is CIA’s fault, and the Czechs, Hungarians, and Tibetans had it coming.
Oh, and to any tankies who are reading this and are tempted to engage in sealioning, don’t bother - I don’t care and probably won’t respond. Plus there’s a pretty good chance you’re already on my block list. Call me fascist if you will (I’vebeen called worse things), but at least tell me a definition of fascism that doesn’t also encompass todays China and Russia
Basically, it’s a label applied to people of a communist persuasion who have given up on any form of critical thinking, and just defaults to “America bad, therefore anything opposing it must be good”. Yes, America bad indeed. But that doesn’t automatically Pol Pot, Kim Young Un, and Stalin are good.
Also, don’t be surprised if this comment is downvoted to oblivion after someone links it on hexbear or lemmygrad. It’s quite telling that comments like this are usually attacked based on syntax rather than substance, while refusing to actually explain what happened at Tianmen Square or during the Holodomor, without citing russian or Chinese propaganda.
Also, the name is a reference to communist countries sending tanks against civilians, RE: Hungary 1956, Prague 1968, and Tianmen Square 1989
Well the ‘America bad for the world’ is arguably not wrong.
True. The problem is their thought process is “therefore every country that’s adversarial to the US is good” including Russia, China, North Korea, etc.
New here, what’s a tankie?
Communist apologists. Nicknamed “tankies” because many would deny/defend things like the Tiananmen Square Massacre, the Hungarian revolt of 1956, Czechoslovakian revolt of 1968, etc… Instances where authorities rolled tanks into town to deal with revolts, which caused images like this:
For a long time, communism’s first response to revolution seemed to be “send in the tanks to deal with it”, thus the nickname “tankies” for people who defended the practice. Lemmy has a lot of communist undertones. It sort of goes hand-in-hand with the “anyone can spin up their own instance and be their own admin” philosophy. The .ml instances are meant to stand for “Maoist/Leninist” so you’ll see a lot of tankies from those .ml instances… But some of the most prominent Lemmy devs use .ml as their home instance, so many instances are hesitant to defederate from them entirely.
It also means there are lots of disagreements about what “real” communism is. Discussions which would get buried on right-leaning (compared to communism) platforms like Meta or Reddit are up front and center on Lemmy. So you’ll see the word thrown around a lot here, especially compared to anywhere else. Because the only thing that causes more arguments than “left vs right” is “moderate left vs far left”.
Most of the leftists and communists at least recognize the evils that communism has enabled in the past. But you’ll inevitably get tankies with the “akshually it wasn’t communism’s fault, it was the individuals” every time anything slightly anti-communist gets brought up.
Maoist/Leninist
Marxist/Leninist
It should stand in contrast to Maoist communism, but tankies don’t care much for the distinction and will support the worst abuses of the Chinese government.
Anyone with .ml after the @ in their name.
But seriously, Russia, China and North Korea’s apologists.
What cartoon is that gal from? Seems recognizeable, but can’t remember where I’ve seen it before
Looks like Veronica from Archie.
