Violent resistance is a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety, and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.
How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?
Violent resistance is a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety
Same with nonviolent resistance! Worse for nonviolent resistance! Did you see what the pigs did to those protesters in LA? All over the country during the No Kings protests?!?
and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.
Fascists don’t need to be emboldened. They are already fully monsters. No matter how peacefully you protest, the fascists will treat you as if you revolted.
How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?
I mean embolden through legislation. Becoming a domestic threat justifies implementation of curfews, and potential suspension of assembly rights for the needs of public safety.
Vietnam was successful because we were forced to attack on unfamiliar territory. You’re suggesting bringing violence to them, right? We’re not talking about pulling a “Home Alone” on ICE.
Becoming a domestic threat justifies implementation of curfews, and potential suspension of assembly rights for the needs of public safety.
No it absolutely does not justify that stuff. Being a threat to the powerful is not the same as being a threat to the average person.
Vietnam was successful because we were forced to attack on unfamiliar territory. You’re suggesting bringing violence to them, right?
I’m suggesting that the working class defends itself against the capitalist using a diversity of tactics, including violence if necessary and possibly a revolt, and that violence is necessary. On average, these fascist fucks don’t know our homes, our neighborhoods, our cities, or our wilderness as well as we do. I think there is a chance of winning if we organize as groups willing to fight.
We’re not talking about pulling a “Home Alone” on ICE.
Also note that Trump’s probably relying on ICE because he reasons that the military might not stand behind him. That means he’s filling up an organization with loyalists, but they have neither strategic planning ability nor any actually useful skills, or they wouldn’t sell themselves out to a worthless piece of shit so easily.
Not in your mind, maybe, but legally it’s the same thing. Violence will be used as justification to enact legislation that will restrict our resistance. Just look at how the early morning vandals and looters in LA got the city to enact a curfew, and they weren’t even part of the protest.
No, legally too, they will use your protest as justification if a sufficiently rowdy one cannot be exhibited. And then when your protest ceases to exist, they’ll fabricate an incident to justify escalation.
The people in charge are already fully monsters who will wield the law as needed to get their dirty work done, regardless of how peacefully you protest, regardless of how perfect a victim you make yourself, regardless of what the law says.
It’s not a question that it’s morally justified. My point is that it’s not legal. Don’t walk into a trap set by the dumbest president in the history of the United States.
There are skin tones and sexual orientations that are effectively and soon to be formally illegal. There are genders that are illegal.
Exercising your ‘first amendment rights’ is a great way ro get the cops to shoot at you. Doing it without a mask is a great way to commit suicide by putting two in the back of your head.
You clearly haven’t been protesting. Your inflammatory and exaggerated descriptions are exactly what will happen if the resistance is labeled a domestic threat. As of now, that is not what is happening. We’ve grown our numbers from a few hundred thousand to ~10M in four months.
Until you come up with a more effective plan to engage the disengaged, why don’t you leave the planning to those who have proven successful?
Stop watching media that highlights the extreme and watch crowdsourced videos of the actual protests. They’re not the LA riots that mainstream media is portraying. I’m in NY and haven’t seen any violence first hand. There have been small altercations here and there, but millions are protesting, connecting, and influencing others to join.
There is no better way to grow our numbers. We need to take advantage of this opportunity to engage and organize. There is no benefit to accelerating into assembly restrictions with only ~2% of our nation, mostly 40+ in age, ready to take action.
That’s fair. I’ve provided cited sources, facts, and statistics. You’ve shared your feelings. I’ll reconsider my stance on peaceful protest being the most effective method to engage and build a communication network when you provide some convincing evidence to the contrary.
I am. Your nearsighted emotional actions will impact our strategic plan to grow our numbers on the streets. There is no logic in accelerating a movement when we have yet to acquire the numbers.
You mean your 50501 fed op? Any movement that supports the idea of America will always enable the very system of oppression you seek to end.
nearsighted emotions
Once you realize that fascists don’t give a shit about if something is “legal” or not, then you’ll realize they aren’t nearsighted. Its ok I used to think like you, give it time.
What agenda are you trying to push here? Are you an accelerationist wishing for the success of fascism? You’re using inflammatory language and projection against my cited facts and logic. What is your goal?
My goal is to grow our resistance. That can happen in broad daylight through protected peaceful protests, or through an oppressed underground resistance. The latter will take far more effort and time to achieve the same result.
Sitting down peacefully at a protest and letting the police arrest you isn’t strategic. Giving your information to a shady organization that creates a database that can be used against you is dumb. Oppressors have their own “facts and logic” they use to justify their actions, good luck with yours.
If someone is about to kill your family right in front of you, say because they don’t like your ethnicity or wish to see you harmed for their gain, do you plead with them through nonviolent methods or try to stop them through violence?
What is your goal?
Currently being a part of and help a growing class-consciousness that works towards a socialist revolution. I don’t believe capitalism/imperialism can be reformed or stopped legally. Sure there is some merit to nonviolence, but we’re going against incredibly violent systems where it alone isn’t enough.
I just got home from a protest. There were no arrests. Lots of exposure though.
How do you expect to get a socialist revolution without well established channels of communication? Once violence begins, your ability to network is greatly strained. If you’re trying to organize, you should be creating dedicated communication channels and counting your numbers before moving on to action. That’s what we’re doing with 50501, and we’ve grown to 25M members, even though we only get ~10M to take action.
You really need to work on your strategy. You won’t be able to usher in a socialist utopia if the plans aren’t laid in advance.
Peace police kept me out of movements for so many years. I know many ithers who can say the same. Juat because youre a masochistic coward, doesn’t mean anyone else is.
Im saying, just because you’re sacrificing doesn’t mean you’re getting things for it; you’re not some kind of sorcerer with an obsidian knife so sharp it can stab abstract concepts. Unless you are, idk, maybe then you have like a genie or something?
But if thats not the case, you know; be less sanctimonious and fucking divisive.
We’re not sacrificing anything by organizing and engaging the disengaged. We’d be sacrificing our right to assembly by inciting violence as you suggest.
You need to do more reading on the successful overthrow of dictatorships. They all begin with organization and communication. The unsuccessful attempts all begin with small-scale violent resistance.
Violent resistance is a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety, and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.
How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?
Same with nonviolent resistance! Worse for nonviolent resistance! Did you see what the pigs did to those protesters in LA? All over the country during the No Kings protests?!?
Fascists don’t need to be emboldened. They are already fully monsters. No matter how peacefully you protest, the fascists will treat you as if you revolted.
Not as many as you think! Remember Vietnam?
I mean embolden through legislation. Becoming a domestic threat justifies implementation of curfews, and potential suspension of assembly rights for the needs of public safety.
Vietnam was successful because we were forced to attack on unfamiliar territory. You’re suggesting bringing violence to them, right? We’re not talking about pulling a “Home Alone” on ICE.
No it absolutely does not justify that stuff. Being a threat to the powerful is not the same as being a threat to the average person.
I’m suggesting that the working class defends itself against the capitalist using a diversity of tactics, including violence if necessary and possibly a revolt, and that violence is necessary. On average, these fascist fucks don’t know our homes, our neighborhoods, our cities, or our wilderness as well as we do. I think there is a chance of winning if we organize as groups willing to fight.
I’m not against that 😈🏴
Also note that Trump’s probably relying on ICE because he reasons that the military might not stand behind him. That means he’s filling up an organization with loyalists, but they have neither strategic planning ability nor any actually useful skills, or they wouldn’t sell themselves out to a worthless piece of shit so easily.
Not in your mind, maybe, but legally it’s the same thing. Violence will be used as justification to enact legislation that will restrict our resistance. Just look at how the early morning vandals and looters in LA got the city to enact a curfew, and they weren’t even part of the protest.
No, legally too, they will use your protest as justification if a sufficiently rowdy one cannot be exhibited. And then when your protest ceases to exist, they’ll fabricate an incident to justify escalation.
The people in charge are already fully monsters who will wield the law as needed to get their dirty work done, regardless of how peacefully you protest, regardless of how perfect a victim you make yourself, regardless of what the law says.
Violent resistance can be justified against violent oppression
It’s not a question that it’s morally justified. My point is that it’s not legal. Don’t walk into a trap set by the dumbest president in the history of the United States.
There are skin tones and sexual orientations that are effectively and soon to be formally illegal. There are genders that are illegal.
Exercising your ‘first amendment rights’ is a great way ro get the cops to shoot at you. Doing it without a mask is a great way to commit suicide by putting two in the back of your head.
Fuck your privileged boot licking bullshit.
You clearly haven’t been protesting. Your inflammatory and exaggerated descriptions are exactly what will happen if the resistance is labeled a domestic threat. As of now, that is not what is happening. We’ve grown our numbers from a few hundred thousand to ~10M in four months.
Until you come up with a more effective plan to engage the disengaged, why don’t you leave the planning to those who have proven successful?
If you cant use any of it in any way that gets you anything-other than shot when they declare you terrorists-you’re not actually helping,
And no, i havent been protesting; good catch. In fact I haven’t been outside since may.
Stop watching media that highlights the extreme and watch crowdsourced videos of the actual protests. They’re not the LA riots that mainstream media is portraying. I’m in NY and haven’t seen any violence first hand. There have been small altercations here and there, but millions are protesting, connecting, and influencing others to join.
There is no better way to grow our numbers. We need to take advantage of this opportunity to engage and organize. There is no benefit to accelerating into assembly restrictions with only ~2% of our nation, mostly 40+ in age, ready to take action.
Okay so im not getting the extreme from videos. I have not been watchibg videos of protests.
And repeating copy pasted talking points isnt going to convince me of anything.
That’s fair. I’ve provided cited sources, facts, and statistics. You’ve shared your feelings. I’ll reconsider my stance on peaceful protest being the most effective method to engage and build a communication network when you provide some convincing evidence to the contrary.
I’m not concerned if its legal or not
I am. Your nearsighted emotional actions will impact our strategic plan to grow our numbers on the streets. There is no logic in accelerating a movement when we have yet to acquire the numbers.
You mean your 50501 fed op? Any movement that supports the idea of America will always enable the very system of oppression you seek to end.
Once you realize that fascists don’t give a shit about if something is “legal” or not, then you’ll realize they aren’t nearsighted. Its ok I used to think like you, give it time.
What agenda are you trying to push here? Are you an accelerationist wishing for the success of fascism? You’re using inflammatory language and projection against my cited facts and logic. What is your goal?
My goal is to grow our resistance. That can happen in broad daylight through protected peaceful protests, or through an oppressed underground resistance. The latter will take far more effort and time to achieve the same result.
Sitting down peacefully at a protest and letting the police arrest you isn’t strategic. Giving your information to a shady organization that creates a database that can be used against you is dumb. Oppressors have their own “facts and logic” they use to justify their actions, good luck with yours.
If someone is about to kill your family right in front of you, say because they don’t like your ethnicity or wish to see you harmed for their gain, do you plead with them through nonviolent methods or try to stop them through violence?
Currently being a part of and help a growing class-consciousness that works towards a socialist revolution. I don’t believe capitalism/imperialism can be reformed or stopped legally. Sure there is some merit to nonviolence, but we’re going against incredibly violent systems where it alone isn’t enough.
I just got home from a protest. There were no arrests. Lots of exposure though.
How do you expect to get a socialist revolution without well established channels of communication? Once violence begins, your ability to network is greatly strained. If you’re trying to organize, you should be creating dedicated communication channels and counting your numbers before moving on to action. That’s what we’re doing with 50501, and we’ve grown to 25M members, even though we only get ~10M to take action.
You really need to work on your strategy. You won’t be able to usher in a socialist utopia if the plans aren’t laid in advance.
Peace police kept me out of movements for so many years. I know many ithers who can say the same. Juat because youre a masochistic coward, doesn’t mean anyone else is.
Refusing to walk into a trap set by the dumbest president in the history of the United States is not cowardice. It’s strategy.
Just because you have big feelings, doesn’t mean you should follow them instead of strategic plans.
Im saying, just because you’re sacrificing doesn’t mean you’re getting things for it; you’re not some kind of sorcerer with an obsidian knife so sharp it can stab abstract concepts. Unless you are, idk, maybe then you have like a genie or something?
But if thats not the case, you know; be less sanctimonious and fucking divisive.
We’re not sacrificing anything by organizing and engaging the disengaged. We’d be sacrificing our right to assembly by inciting violence as you suggest.
You need to do more reading on the successful overthrow of dictatorships. They all begin with organization and communication. The unsuccessful attempts all begin with small-scale violent resistance.