So a recent post garnered some comments and reports for being AI art. In light of this we should all have a little conversation about how AI generated images should be handled in the future.
I think we all agree that AI images that are “garbage” or don’t add anything should be removed, but clearly some feel very strongly that all AI art should always be removed.
It should be noted that the rules as written and as agreed on by the community does not blanket ban AI, it merely says AI art should be avoided, while many other rules say no this or that instead.
Things to discuss:
- Does it matter if an image is AI? Does it always matter?
- What about images that are AI generated, but have been modified by a human?
- What about images where it’s hard to say for certain that it is generated? Me and the other mods did not agree on whether the recent image was AI f.ex which makes it hard to make a decision on whether or not to remove it.
- It can be stressful to artists to be accused of having used AI. If we are too militant on weeding out AI art it could be harmful as there will no doubt be some false positives.
- Should AI posts require being tagged in the title? (and of course be required to be of a certain level of quality)
I think a lot of us mods feel that AI should be allowed so long as it is not low quality and serves some purpose (being entertaining f.ex), and that the community should not be flooded with AI. What are your thoughts?
Edit: Thank you all for your input! Most of the others are sleeping right now I think, so nothing is likely gonna happen until later today.
as much as i wouldnt want to see just ai art with no further human work/edit/something. i dont think its actually possible to police ai art without banning human work that might look similar. as much i understand the sentiment of others on ai art, its a slippery slope to have ‘tells’ of an ai art vs human. wont go too in-depth but i sometimes make art that’s intentionally smudgy and weird, idk if people would mistake those for ai art but i can see it being possible.
ai art without further human work i think should be removed. but i dont think it should be removed if its not clear it was ai. maybe a rule that if u do post ai u must at least say its that in the description. ofcourse this isnt gonna make everyone who posts ai to do that, but faith in people first should be the best start. if it isnt clarified on ai but many are saying, moderators could ask and have a policy if the creator doesnt clarify after being asked then it could be removed or locked at least.
i would also like to give opinion on comments. that post did have ai defenders and those should be removed, especially if they are being intentionally hateful. but i am also not really cool with tolerance on those who were being hateful on ai users as well, especially when the post was unproven. i do want to say there should be a discussion on whether such comments should be kept as is as well. im not here to defend ai, but i dont think being actively hostile towards a suspected ai thing is a good thing. it goes back to the slipperly slope, if i make some art that i have been doing before gen_ai was a thing, making intentionally weird smudged up things, and im being harassed for suspected ai, i wouldnt post again (to be clear i have not had this experience and i havent posted my weird art, i might someday; im giving an example that has happened in the art community over and over for people i know, i dont want this place to be unsafe similar to that. we have to keep in mind that tells and stuff is very much gonna hurt human creators more than it can hurt the corporate empire of gen_ai).
this is all not to mention that i think gen_ai users are significantly smaller scapegoats of a problem then are corporations making, funding, implementing, and buying gen_ai stuff. and i feel harassment of gen_ai users is pointless, maybe more fruitful to spread awareness of its harm as many non tech people i know dont know the issues until told. u can call them ignorant at most sure, but harassment just gonna lead them to continue ignoring. though thats a much more different issue, im highlighting as an opinion here to explain my thinking of why i dont want harassment or hateful things in the comments. especially generalized one that might hurt human creators far more
supplemting my last point. i dont think hating on gen_ai users does anything. tech industry does not care about users but stocks. as things get worse we can only really spread information and get people to understand the issue, but hating on them is only energy expended by us for almost no fruit. corporations dont need us to survive, if users mattered they wouldnt be making pointless bullshit for the past decade that i realy dont think had potential. we are jumping pointless tech thing to another pointless tech thing and corporations survive fine. so i dont see a reason to be angry at the end user, especially in cases we dont even know for sure if gen_ai was involved and how much. anger is understandable in the state that we are in, but again it may hurt the humans far more than it can ever reach the corporations.
fuck ai full stop. imho. it’s cooking the planet and stealing art and funding nazis all the same whether you use it to make fun of the nazis or ai bros or make something otherwise entertaining with it. you’re still contributing to the problem using it at all.
First and last ones are only true for big corporate models. The second one is subjective whether you believe in copyright policing. I don’t, but I’m pro-piracy and believe that IP gatekeeping is harmful to our culture at large. I’ve seen both how ruthless IP holders can be, and I’ve also seen how lazy they are at rehashing the same ideas over and over (why movie studios and authors reuse the same plots, stories, or remake the same content over and over and over again). I don’t agree with this.
The first one and last one are big problems, but are easily solved by using Open source software (that things that everyone forgets exists) and self-hosting yourself, I can use my own GPU to run an instance of AIhorde software for nothing more than what it takes to play a video game.
No, AIHorde still uses corporate models. The only open source part is distributing the computation.
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com I’m curious how true is this if you don’t mind me asking.
It’s “corporate” only in the sense that the were developed by corporations yes, but we don’t interact with those corporations anymore than meme posters interact with the original creators of the images they use for memes. The models we’re using are permissively licensed and are run locally on people’s PCs.
I see, thank you for responding.
Absolutely agreed, fuck AI
i support a full ban on AI-generated art. however, I think the moderation should be lenient and allow art when it’s not certain if it’s AI-generated or not. IMO letting some AI art through is better than over-moderating and hurting real artists.
at the very least, making it possible to filter out AI art would be a good thing as well.
I agree, I think attribution (describing to viewers your sources, and how your post differs from the source) is more important than attrition (avoiding AI as a sourve).
Fully agree here!:)
Removed by mod
OK, I seem to have the wrong opinion here, but I personally don’t mind AI stuff. It can make the weirdest ideas into an image, which can be often funny. Also some AI image prompts may be quite complicated. I remember someone posting the prompt for some image and it was like a whole sheet of paper worth of keywords. I remember it because the negative prompt included “fused anus”, which really caught my eye.
I never worked with it though, I have no idea how it really works, apart from using simpler tools like Gemini.
Should AI posts require being tagged in the title? (and of course be required to be of a certain level of quality)
This, at the very very least. I support a full ban though.
Late reply but I’ll give my input. This is probably a controversial one but I don’t think we should allow AI in this community or in !196@pawb.social. Maybe people might think that’s weird since I run an AI community on dbzer0 but AI generated content has a specific time and place I don’t think this community is one of them. If there is demand for AI memes I think there should simply be a dedicated community for it and if people don’t like it they can block that one.
That said I don’t agree with the hostility I’ve seen towards others in this community over use of AI (intentional or not) and trying to defame or harass them. This is disgusting and inexcusable.
One thing I do worry about when policing AI content is that this is a reposting community and people posting AI content on accident is almost guaranteed. For that reason I think that we need to be careful with how it’s enforced and also how people behave around it. The flaming, harassment, and defamation that has been a typical response is unacceptable.
Yeah, I guess if most people here still aren’t OK with AI-generated images, then so be it. 🤷 Even if I disagree with them.
I have a fundamental issue with AI generated content— it’s trained on data largely without permission, attribution or compensation. At least in the USA, corporations have never really had copyright law enforced on them (with enough money and lawyers, you can either settle out of court or dispute any issues). But this generative AI trend feels to me like a larger kind of loophole which lets corporations blatantly steal works for their own use because they’re interpreted by their deep patterns and merged with lots of other data.
It also takes the humanity out of arts. It’s automating the most human part of us, creating, imagining, and refining techniques and skills.
I’m in favor of a full ban, including content that’s been touched up.
Now moderating it is a hard issue, because it’s only getting harder to differentiate AI-generated content, and I agree that there’s danger in over-scrutinizing. Not sure I can chime in much there.
(This post generated by a human being)
Yeah moderation is the toughest part, especially considering this is a very general “just post whatever” community. Especially as it continues to get less obvious, I’d hate to see AI witch-hunt type comments against either actual artists, or maybe a random person dropping a saved meme they didn’t even realize was generated themselves. For a place I mod which is largely populated by art posts (furry_irl) I opted to require artist credit in the title or post body when applicable, but that seems like it could be a bit tedious for 196.
I think the best case would be something like “we reserve the right to remove posts we believe are machine generated,” but also “do not attack others about it, discuss tactfully, send reports for posts you reasonably believe are generated instead for moderator discretion.”
I already blocked all the AI communities on Lemmy. If I see AI anything outside of the those communities I’m down voting it. I don’t want to see it. Seeing hideous abominations made out of plagiarized artwork really pisses me off. I don’t know why people insist on posting that shit where it isn’t wanted.
I personally am in favor of no generative AI on this sub. If it is going to be added please mandate it being tagged in the title. Maybe that would be better because then people wouldn’t feel the need to try to pass the photos the AI made for them off as non-GenAI posts?
If I wanted AI memes there are dedicated websites for AI generated memes. It should be outright banned from this sub, people can just spam otherwise.
A lot of good reasoning is going on already so I won’t repeat what I’ve upvoted already.
What I’ll add is that from a purely emotional perspective I am systematically turned off by AI output. It repulses me like a pond swarming with existential leeches. It bears a mark of contempt towards the human experience.
Same, seeing that anything is ai makes me feel repulsed for some reason.
AI memes are something I associate with Facebook and Xitter, not something I enjoy having show up in my feed. Personally I would rather see literal MS paint stick figures than AI slop.
guess what i jus uploaded >v<
I always upvote OC art when I see it 👍
I dislike every AI post, downvoting it and / or ignoring it at least. Not that I am biased (I am) but content made using AI rarely is funny or creative at all. Being AI made is only one of it’s flaps.
Meme being shitty drawn almost in most cases even adds to it’s meme value and make author put some efford into it’s creation. AI generated content is dull, dumb, ugly and spam.
I say fuck it. Ban it all. If you can’t be bothered to crudely draw a knockoff meme in paint like the rest of us you don’t deserve to post anything. Saying that you will get rid of low quality ai is saying you’re going to get rid of all of it anyway.
I’m personally of the belief that there is so much AI art generated with stolen art data that I’d rather we not post it.
