Considering gender is a social construct it can’t exist till a person has assimilated the information needed to create the construction.
Them figuring out where they sit inside of that construction is the tricky part.
Sexuality is hard to say, but considering observation in preferences among other species it’s likely to not manifest fully till an organism goes though their equivalent of puberty.
So in either case there’s basically no real argument that either is from birth. But also there’s even less of an argument that it’s a conscious choice. It’s a manifestation of the chemicals and/or the perception of the person. Depending on which of the two your talking about.
Now if we talking about biological sex. Then yeah your born with the bits you have. Don’t mean you can’t have them changed. Or disagree with the social expectations of gender commonly associated with those bits. Thank you modern medicine and fuck expectations!
For gender dysphoria there have been studies suggesting that prenatal hormone exposure plays a role. Many also experience dysphoria specifically about their genitals, so it’s likely about more than just social gender constructs (probably also depends on the individual though), with at least some contributing factors already decided at birth.
But yea, both gender and sexuality are very complex and there are bound to be environmental factors for both.
Many also experience dysphoria specifically about their genitals, so it’s likely about more than just social gender constructs (probably also depends on the individual though), with at least some contributing factors already decided at birth.
I mean, ultimately everything that goes on in your mind has a neurological component of some sort. I suspect with this, for example, the brain is structured to run body template A, but is piloting body template B and is basically throwing an error. I see no reason not to change the body to match the brain, especially since modifying the brain quickly heads into major ethical concerns and philosophical weirdness. I mean, ultimately the brain is you and the body is just a meat mech.
Pretty sure science does have evidence that there is heavy influence from how someone grows? Obviously how someone is raised can change their attitude towards identities, even as far as making ignorant people closet and resent themselves without even truly knowing why.
So… it’s pretty obvious that it’s both. It’s just an open question as to how much each affect, and I’d bet it’s wholly subjective anyways.
Yeah, it just bothers me when people reject “you are not born LGBT” as though it’s somehow a bigoted opinion. I guess they hear “not born” and mentally substitute “it’s a choice.”
I mean… that is the implication. What I said was, “it is clearly both.” They ARE born different, and their life has allowed them to figure out how they are different and hopefully explore it in healthy ways for those that openly identify.
Any direct, unqualified statement of, “you are not born different” is directly and completely wrong.
No. I’m not aware of any evidence that one is born with the propensity to be LGBT. It’s well-known that it’s not a choice, but that is not the same as saying that you’re genetically predetermined to be LGBT. Twin studies disprove that.
My understanding is that the current prevailing belief among psychologists is that sexual orientation develops during adolescence, and is either random or influenced in some way by one’s sexual exposure, but not necessarily in any obviously deterministic way.
Any direct, unqualified statement of, “you are born different” is directly and completely wrong.
No, you’re just being an ignorant fool with that one. There would be no people so closeted that they hate themselves and don’t know why if there were no genetic inclinations.
I think you’re just being an ignorant fool. People are closeted and hate themselves because there is no choice to not be LGBT. Do you disagree with this? Do you think it’s a choice? Newsflash: it’s not.
Something can be both not a choice and not genetic.
I think most people who would agree with the phrase “you are not born LGBT” if you asked them to rank “agree”/“disagree” on a survey, and are not the kind of people who actively go around with an anti-LGBT agenda. Those with an anti-LGBT agenda obviously are the people who we hear saying this.
Considering gender is a social construct it can’t exist till a person has assimilated the information needed to create the construction.
Them figuring out where they sit inside of that construction is the tricky part.
Sexuality is hard to say, but considering observation in preferences among other species it’s likely to not manifest fully till an organism goes though their equivalent of puberty.
So in either case there’s basically no real argument that either is from birth. But also there’s even less of an argument that it’s a conscious choice. It’s a manifestation of the chemicals and/or the perception of the person. Depending on which of the two your talking about.
Now if we talking about biological sex. Then yeah your born with the bits you have. Don’t mean you can’t have them changed. Or disagree with the social expectations of gender commonly associated with those bits. Thank you modern medicine and fuck expectations!
For gender dysphoria there have been studies suggesting that prenatal hormone exposure plays a role. Many also experience dysphoria specifically about their genitals, so it’s likely about more than just social gender constructs (probably also depends on the individual though), with at least some contributing factors already decided at birth.
But yea, both gender and sexuality are very complex and there are bound to be environmental factors for both.
I mean, ultimately everything that goes on in your mind has a neurological component of some sort. I suspect with this, for example, the brain is structured to run body template A, but is piloting body template B and is basically throwing an error. I see no reason not to change the body to match the brain, especially since modifying the brain quickly heads into major ethical concerns and philosophical weirdness. I mean, ultimately the brain is you and the body is just a meat mech.
same for sexuality. I didn’t say that pre-birth effects have no impact.
Male homosexuality appears to be set before birth in at least some situations (but it’s still not genetic) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation
I meant trans status, not gender. I don’t know that science has entirely determined the cause of trans status or that it’s social.
Pretty sure science does have evidence that there is heavy influence from how someone grows? Obviously how someone is raised can change their attitude towards identities, even as far as making ignorant people closet and resent themselves without even truly knowing why.
So… it’s pretty obvious that it’s both. It’s just an open question as to how much each affect, and I’d bet it’s wholly subjective anyways.
Yeah, it just bothers me when people reject “you are not born LGBT” as though it’s somehow a bigoted opinion. I guess they hear “not born” and mentally substitute “it’s a choice.”
I mean… that is the implication. What I said was, “it is clearly both.” They ARE born different, and their life has allowed them to figure out how they are different and hopefully explore it in healthy ways for those that openly identify.
Any direct, unqualified statement of, “you are not born different” is directly and completely wrong.
No. I’m not aware of any evidence that one is born with the propensity to be LGBT. It’s well-known that it’s not a choice, but that is not the same as saying that you’re genetically predetermined to be LGBT. Twin studies disprove that.
My understanding is that the current prevailing belief among psychologists is that sexual orientation develops during adolescence, and is either random or influenced in some way by one’s sexual exposure, but not necessarily in any obviously deterministic way.
Any direct, unqualified statement of, “you are born different” is directly and completely wrong.
No, you’re just being an ignorant fool with that one. There would be no people so closeted that they hate themselves and don’t know why if there were no genetic inclinations.
I think you’re just being an ignorant fool. People are closeted and hate themselves because there is no choice to not be LGBT. Do you disagree with this? Do you think it’s a choice? Newsflash: it’s not.
Something can be both not a choice and not genetic.
No choice not to be lgbtq? Well thanks for making it obvious you’re just a brianwashed bigoted moron! This conversation will not be continuing, bigot.
That is how most people who say that mean it.
I think most people who would agree with the phrase “you are not born LGBT” if you asked them to rank “agree”/“disagree” on a survey, and are not the kind of people who actively go around with an anti-LGBT agenda. Those with an anti-LGBT agenda obviously are the people who we hear saying this.