This debate feels somewhat surreal because I feel like both sides are wrong.
Conservatives are clearly doing this because they’re pretty, vindictive, reactionary ethnonationalists. DEI is clearly harmless.
Conversely, I’ve not seen any evidence of these meaningfully ameliorating systemic racism at all. Honestly, they feel like another successful effort to turn a serious social problem into a profit generating industry, like carbon offsets.
(Maybe that’s what they’ll replace DEI with: some kind of Racism offset./s)
Anyway, what I’m saying is I have no horse in this race.
DEI is clearly harmless.
Make sure to mention that to all the Asians excluded from Harvard.
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I don’t think that’s DEI, that’s Affirmative Action.
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The Supreme Court banned that, so it’s over.
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The problem with ivy league admissions was never racial selection. It’s that it’s a cartel. It’s an artificially limited resource. Asian applicants aren’t being excluded for black people, they’re being excluded to leave empty space at a gigantic campus that could accommodate several times sad many students as they let in.
they’re being excluded
Correct. They’re being excluded, based on their race.
Again: they definitely aren’t being excluded based on their race anymore. The supreme court banned this practice completely. So I don’t know what there is to argue about.
I think it’s a distraction, though, because the underlying issue is that these institutions are a corrupt parasitic power retention project. They offer a very small number of people access to networks to ensure they can dole out favors in a carefully controlled manner, and then we argue about whether the people they’re choosing to let into this artificially limited power sharing network are unfairly discriminated against by race, as though what they’re doing would be okay if it had no racial bias.
I’m not here to argue that their use of racial discrimination was a good thing, but I think it’s a distraction from the fact that even now that they’ve ended the racial element of the program, they’re STILL a corrupt parasitic antidemocratic cabal. They’re still excluding people unnecessarily, it’s just the criteria they use has been changed to ensure that those people are unable to organize themselves into any kind of class action lawsuit.
use of racial discrimination was a good thing
I can never agree to this, in any context.
I’m not here to argue that their use of racial discrimination was a good thing
Yeah, as that sentence clearly says, that’s not my point.
I feel like you’re looking for a conflict where there is none. Do you think their policies were bad and treated people unfairly? I agree. They were bad and they treated people unfairly. The point I’m trying to make is that we should demand more than JUST an end to racially restrictive admissions. I’m "yes-and"ing you. There’s no reason to argue.
I think we are on the same page.
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Is DEI the new CRT? What are the public grievances against DEI?
I don’t even know what DEI is.
It would be nice if at least once a page someone fucking explains an acronym. It’s a little more understandable when you can infer a meaning through context, but when the context is that people are using it as the new woke bogeyman it gives zero clue as to what it even is.
You aren’t wrong with your criticism in general (from a purely journalistic pov). But actually typing DEI into Google and clicking the first hit, would be more constructive than ranting.
D.E.I. programs explicitly treat people differently based on race. Such programs have no place in modern society.
That only makes sense if we aren’t already treating people differently based on race, which we do all the time.
“We can’t stop doing X as long as we’re still doing X” doesn’t exactly make much sense either.
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X, in this case, is “treating people differently based on race.”
I would love if we were to do un-X.
I’d say X is more like “disproportionately and systematically disadvantaging people of color.”
So now DEI programs are only for people of colour?
Why not just “disadvantaged people”? That takes race out of the equation entirely, and everyone is satisfied. Unless excluding disadvantaged people of specific races or genders or whatever is actually the point.
Extend to gender, ethnicity, LGBTQ, whatever…the key is the “systematically.” We can’t assess relative (dis)advantage at an individual level, but we can recognize it at a systemic level and develop programs that counter it systemically.
I thought treating people differently based on race was to be avoided? There’s no good racism right?
Wouldn’t a better and fairer idea be to give people a hand up based on economic issues?
You can’t tell if someone has experienced racial discrimination based on the race they ascribe to (ask Megan markle).
However you can definitely (and without bias) tell someone is going to be disadvantaged if they grew up in a poor neighbourhood, neither parent earned much, no family history of higher education etc etc.
You’re talking about affirmative action, this is about DEI.
I thought treating people differently based on race was to be avoided? There’s no good racism right?
On the very slim chance you’re asking in good faith, I’ll answer your question.
Suppose we were playing poker, and I was cheating the whole time. After a long time, and with almost all the chips, I finally agree not to cheat anymore and play the game “with the same rules for everybody, going forward”. That’s fair, right?
I get that you have good intentions and I hate to tell you this but every racist thinks their racism is right and justified. Best to reject racism mate.
Also your example plays perfectly into the compromise I suggested. Why not give those with less chips more? They’re not always (insert race you want to preference here).
I know the intention is to level the playing field but it’s been divisive and often exploited by those who don’t need it. Economic standards are far easier to determine, more accurate measures and aren’t racist.
I don’t really know who this is directed to.
It’s a compromise.
Removes the racism inherent in Dei and replaces it with something that hopefully helps more people that actually need a hand.
