An omnipotent god could alter nature in a way that makes us able to enjoy good without needing to suffer. If they can’t, they’re not omnipotent. If they don’t want to, they’re letting us suffer unnecessarily, and they’re not good.
You technically could, but surprisingly, a lot more people take issues with their entire personality, memories, and consciousness being altered than with their bodies.
Because again, that’s what you are proposing as “good”.
Don’t see how that’s what I proposed as good. As time wouldn’t exist for god (implication of being omnipotent), there’s no reason that suffering ever existed in the first place - no need to change anything on a running system.
True, but there could be a meaning or reason behind the suffering we still don’t understand either way is my point, because we still don’t understand enough of ourselves or the universe yet to know if it’s the better choice either. After all, before the rat utopia experiment, it was assumed having literally every need met perfectly would lead to happiness rather than disaster. It could be that he’s done both for reasons unknown to us, creating both our dimension with suffering and one where suffering never existed.
Or there could be no reason at all, and God is an omnipotent being that is neither good nor bad, much like the ancient Greek concept of the God Chaos - they just “are”.
Yes, exactly. If there is a god, they definitely either aren’t omnipotent, or they aren’t good according to our definition of being good (as they ignore our unnecessary suffering).
But that does bring us back to if free will can truly exist without evil. If you’re forced into a single alignment, would you be any freer than an AI programmed to not be evil?
The argument we were discussing was that god was either evil (as in not good) or not omnipotent.
Whether humans must be evil due to free will is another discussion entirely, and I would propose that free will is never entirely free and always limited by our perception and understanding of the world. If evil didn’t exist, you would be as free to be evil as you are to ignore gravity. Also, most religions believe in a paradise free from evil, so does that mean you lose your free will once you enter?
An omnipotent god could alter nature in a way that makes us able to enjoy good without needing to suffer. If they can’t, they’re not omnipotent. If they don’t want to, they’re letting us suffer unnecessarily, and they’re not good.
I’m not denying they could do that if they’re omnipotent.
I’m saying that what you’re suggesting is the extermination of humanity as is, and that some would consider that evil.
By that logic, you could say that eliminating cancer is exterminating humanity as is, and thus evil.
You technically could, but surprisingly, a lot more people take issues with their entire personality, memories, and consciousness being altered than with their bodies.
Because again, that’s what you are proposing as “good”.
Don’t see how that’s what I proposed as good. As time wouldn’t exist for god (implication of being omnipotent), there’s no reason that suffering ever existed in the first place - no need to change anything on a running system.
Oh from the get go you mean.
True, but there could be a meaning or reason behind the suffering we still don’t understand either way is my point, because we still don’t understand enough of ourselves or the universe yet to know if it’s the better choice either. After all, before the rat utopia experiment, it was assumed having literally every need met perfectly would lead to happiness rather than disaster. It could be that he’s done both for reasons unknown to us, creating both our dimension with suffering and one where suffering never existed.
Or there could be no reason at all, and God is an omnipotent being that is neither good nor bad, much like the ancient Greek concept of the God Chaos - they just “are”.
Yes, exactly. If there is a god, they definitely either aren’t omnipotent, or they aren’t good according to our definition of being good (as they ignore our unnecessary suffering).
But that does bring us back to if free will can truly exist without evil. If you’re forced into a single alignment, would you be any freer than an AI programmed to not be evil?
The argument we were discussing was that god was either evil (as in not good) or not omnipotent.
Whether humans must be evil due to free will is another discussion entirely, and I would propose that free will is never entirely free and always limited by our perception and understanding of the world. If evil didn’t exist, you would be as free to be evil as you are to ignore gravity. Also, most religions believe in a paradise free from evil, so does that mean you lose your free will once you enter?