Seems like hard-core hate for anyone religious is fine in many circles. Is there a point where it becomes as problematic as other forms of bigotry? Not any specific religion necessarily just the disdain for the religious in general.
If you hate people simply for being religious, without respect for their beliefs, then that would be bigotry.
However, largely, the paradox of intolerance applies, especially if a given religious belief is being forced on the general populace. That is, if a religion or individual of a religion supports bigoted behavior/ beliefs (such as against human rights) then it isn’t wrong to say that you hate those beliefs and those who support them. This does include “simply” being a member of a church that actively promotes harmful beliefs since people are supporting those beliefs through their membership.
The reality is that many religions are problematic in these ways, so it isn’t bigoted to oppose bigotry-- but you should clarify beliefs first. Like The Satanic Temple? Rock on.
Lots of assumptions in this thread that the concept of ‘religion’ is interchangeable with ‘theism’. It isn’t. There’s quite a few large religions that are, or can be practised, in a nontheistic way including Buddhism, Hinduism, Taosim and Jainism. There’s even a branch of Quakerism that is nontheistic.
Wider definitions of religion exist than simply ‘belief in a supernatural deity/deities’, including my own - that of modern atheistic Satanism.
In terms of bigotry - being shitty to whole groups of people based on their belief in a non-existent being feels weird to me. Being shitty if they then use that belief to justify their own bigotry is not weird and is called activism. Or to put it another way - if someone believes in a god and prays in a church and makes no comments that support the infringement of other peoples rights to exist and live their lives as they want to then that’s totally fine by me.
Free blocklist in the comments!
Religion is a cancer and Abrahamic religions is pedo operations
The more religious they are, the more likely they are covering up being pedophiles.
I am tired of society pretending it ain’t so.
How regime handled the catholic church and Epstein is very telling about who rules us
Don’t hate people.
Hate the perverse, uncivic, inherently tribalistic ideas of “belief without evidence”, “felt truth”, and “chosen people”
They are all toxic memes antithetical to a modern inclusive pluralistic society.
Hate the institutions not the members of them?
I suppose it’s similar to when you criticize something like, say, China or the USA. Are you also hateful towards the Chinese or Americans? Similar here.
A favourite phrase of mine that comes up in so many different areas of life is: “soft on people, hard on structures.” Individuals tend to be pretty good, genuine and caring people.
It’s much like how an atheist might be a great person, but the new atheist movement became a festering cesspool of anti-feminist right wing bigotry. Having a religion doesn’t change much really, shit people are universal.
Religion is a choice
People can’t choose their skin colour, their sexuality etc.
Bigotry is hating someone for an intrinsic part of who they are
Religion is fair game as far as I’m concerned
I don’t care about someone’s religion, until they make it my problem
They’re free to have their stupid beliefs. I’m not going to respect them, but if they leave me alone, I will return the courtesy
As soon as they want to force me to abide by their backwards superstition, to pass laws in its name, to shit on others using their fairytales as justification, then I have a fucking problem.
Bigotry specifically includes the hate for someone based on religion. At least based on the dictionary’s definition.
Depends on your dictionary
Your response just comes off the same way a guy might say something like “Sure I don’t HATE gay/racial group/ethnic group people, I just dont want them to be around me” (a common sentiment I’d hear growing up) I recognize the distinction between choice you made though. I just can’t quite seem to grasp why you may think people make that choice.
People make that choice because it makes them feel special.
I don’t need to be a member of a bronze-age book club to enjoy my life
People make that choice because it makes them feel special.
Sadly, a lot of people are indoctrinated into religion as a child.
I agree
It’s abuse
Without indoctrination before a child is able to think, religion would disappear in a generation
If you genuinely believe its child abuse, do you think legislation should be created to outlaw it?
This falls under the paradox of intolerance for me
You would consider all religious people intolerant then?
Yes.
The whole point of their story books is to give them something to feel superior about, and to give them a licence to see anyone outside of their little club as inferior
That’s an interesting point of view.
Don’t patronize. 🖕🏼
When they stop legislating their doctrine.
In the US or in general? Both is reasonable as well I guess.
I consider every form of religion to be highly dangerous and I think every religious person is delusional, irrational and illogical, to say the least. I simply avoid them like the plague and mind my own business. It’s a massive dealbreaker for any personal relationship with me. Nope, thanks. I don’t need that in my life.
Would you consider yourself a bigot ?
I consider myself anti-religious, but I don’t knock at your door at fucking 7:30 in the morning asking if you’d like to talk about atheism. I don’t creep around public places handling out pamphlets promoting atheism. I don’t deny people their rights to be moronic simpletons who can’t think for themselves. I do, however, say ‘go jump in a lake’ to religious people whenever they bother me.
That’s fair. You’re morally and intellectually superior but you don’t HATE anyone. That’s been the general consensus I’ve seen so far.
They consider themself to be morally and intellectually superior.
By definition they are… Considering oneself as one is a different matter ;)
That’s the part that I find interesting though.
Never, religion is an opinion and you can hate dumb opinions all you want.
If you consider someone’s religion an opinion I don’t think you’ve ever had a meaningful conversation with a religious person. Which is fine, just gonna lead to a fairly narrow view of the world.
I had very meaningful conversation about all kinds of fiction, including religion.
I don’t think thats the roast you want it to be.
No “roast” was intended.
It’s cute that you think we value your opinions
I value yours, I dont really care what you think of mine lol.
It’s a belief in something absurd, without a shred of evidence
It certainly can’t be considered a fact, ergo, it’s opinion
Reason isn’t your strong suit, huh?
Just to be clear, I’m an agnostic (likely atheist) liberal democrat, mechanical engineer and consider myself a pragmatic person. I’m trying to understand opinions and consider how they clash with my personal experiences in life so far. I don’t necessarily think religious people are inherently bad or good. Do you have a specific stance on why someone would choose to engage with a religion? Based on other comments, it seems like you think religious people just want a reason to feel superior to others. Would you say thats accurate?
Indoctrination, or later in life, either stupidity or grasping for hope of salvation (usually both)
That’s consistent with all the other comments you’ve left.
Nothing good comes from hate. Hate is an emotion, and when you’re emotional, you cannot fix or improve things.
The comments here are awful. I am sorry for the abuse you are receiving.
I’m a staunch atheist myself, and even for some of the same reasons others are mentioning in their rage-comments. That being said, hating a person for their religious beliefs alone is baffling, and yes, makes you a bigot.
The exception I would make here is for situation and people where they, based on their religious beliefs hate you, and there’s nothing that can be done about it.I also would not call it bigoted to hate religious institutions for the discord and pain they inflict on the world.
But hating people because “well I was able to see through religion, so I am justified in hating everyone that did not and is still religious” is just such a disingenuous take. It denies the reality of indoctrination-like upbringings, of the differing educations people receive, and puts all religious people into a single “enemy” group.
I’m not US-American, as I assume many of these commenters are; where I live, the proportion of religious people is a lot lower, and the religiosity is… less pronounced, let’s say. It is much more difficult to find someone here who would, for example, go “Homosexuality is a sin according to the bible. Therefore I hate you.”; most religious people seem to have a differentiated opinion about these things, usually being more in line with “I believe there’s a God that loves us. The bible was written by fallible humans whose biases are present in the texts”.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think they are wrong in this and pity them for the time and energy lost on pleasing an imaginary being, and for the pain their beliefs can inflict upon themselves; but ultimately, that’s up to each individual person, and it does not justify hate.
I think this is a great question because it absolutely gets the point. The enemy is the system, not the people. This informs you both who and how you fight back. So when someone is saying something bigoted for religious reasons, the problem isn’t necessarily that particular person, but the religious system that brainwashed them. In fact, it was a specific flavor of that religious system.
I think a more clear distinction can be found in feminism. Feminism isn’t about fighting men, but fighting patriarchy. So, sure, there are men who are dickhead misogynists, but they are also potential allies that are also hurt by patriarchy. It’s the system and those who specifically aim to perpetuate said system. Social philosophers tend to point to systems rather than people constantly, because it’s so common for people to point out symptoms rather than the cause. So when we know to identify patriarchy rather than misogynists, yeah, we’ll still call out misogynist men for sure, but also women that perpetuate patriarchy.
So if I’m blaming the system rather than the person, maybe I’m recognizing the religious person’s commitment to truth and appealing to that rather than labeling them the enemy and writing them off completely. I think something that gets lost in all the polarizing bullshit as of recent is recognizing that a great way to make another bigot not exist is to persuade them to not be a bigot anymore. The enemy isn’t people, it’s the fucking system. Like the great poets have said: “Don’t blame it on the Needy, don’t blame it on the Poor, don’t blame it on the Jew, blame it on the system. Blame it on the fucking system.”
Interesting and well thought out reply, thank you.
I just think hate is generally an unproductive feeling regardless of who it’s towards. Don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to claim that I’m perfect and never find myself feeling it, I just try to avoid it.
That’s honest
Pretty much immediately. You can hate extremism, you can hate corrupt and damaging institutions and you can hate intolerance. But don’t hate someone just because they believe something you don’t or you believe the same thing in a slightly different way.
That’s close to how I feel.
