I tried Nextcloud a while back and was not impressed - I had issues withe the speed of the Windows sync that were determined to be “normal” with no roadmap to getting fixed. I’m now planning to move off Windows desktop so that won’t be an issue - so I thought I’d try again.
I went to nextcloud.com, clicked on Download-> Nextcloud server -> All-in-one -> Docker image - Setup AIO. This took me to the github README at Docker section. I’m already running docker for other things so I read the instructions, setup a new filesystem for my data directory and ran the suggested docker command with an appropriate “–env NEXTCLOUD_DATADIR=”. I’m then left with a terminal running docker in the foreground - not a great way to run a background server but ok, I’ve been around for a while and can figure out how to make it autostart in the background ongoing. So I move on to the next step - open my browser at the appropriate URL and I’m presented with a simple page asking me to “Log in using your Nextcloud AIO passphrase:”. I don’t have a Nextcloud AIO passphrase and nothing I’ve read so far has mentioned it. When I search for it I get some results on how to reset it, but not much help. I could probably figure that out too, but after reading some more I found that Nextcloud requires a public hostname and can’t work with a local name or IP address. I’m already running my home LAN with OpenVPN and access it from anywhere as “local” - I don’t really want to create a new path into my home network just for Nextcloud.
I’m sorry - I know this sounds like a disgruntled rant and I guess it is. I just want to check that I’m not missing obvious things before I give up again. All I want is a simple file sync setup like onedrive but without the microsoft.
I haven’t used nextcloud in years, but last I read about it was to avoid AIO at all cost. There is another version and for some reason AIO was shit and not AIO was OK. Can’t remember why though.
it is like complaining about wordpress. it is there. it has many devs. it does a lot quite ok. take or leave it.
Nextclouds docker setup is an absolute disaster, I don’t blame you for giving up. It’s also slow as molasses to sync anything.
A couple things to look at, I would probably say look at KaraDAV first.
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KaraDAV, this is a simple webdav server that’s compatible with the Nextcloud sync clients. Uses SQLite for a DB so setup is super simple. Has a basic web based file browser too.
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Owncloud Infinite Scale, still a bit of a setup, but it’s better than what Nextcloud offers.
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Syncthing, this is my current setup, just a robust and solid file sync program. You can pair it up on your server with something like SFTPGo or KaraDAV to provide a web file manager and WebDAV server if you need that. Downside is there’s no selective sync or virtual folder support.
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Try Synching. Its More of a file sync than file share/Cloud but it’s very lightweight and works without issue. I use it to sync many of my important files to have them always accessible offline on all devices.
I wanted something that has OnlyOffice integration and basically an selfhosted Google Drive, so tried Nexcloud as the most popular solution… but… it was a pain to set up, its internal workings make handling reverse proxying a pain and it feels extremely slow.
I will try out Seafile, they seem to have just the 2 things I need and nothing more.
I haven’t used nextcloud but it seems frustrating that there isn’t any really good selfhosted file cloud. Nextcloud is really chunky and inefficient but it seems to be the best option despite that.
Agreed, Nextcloud has gone from a lean little personal cloud to a hulking enterprise hub.
If you’re after something that’ll just sync your files between devices, try Syncthing. If you need files available online, maybe something like filestash or, like somebody else suggested, SFTPgo.
There are also tiny, lean calendar and contact server apps out there if you decide you need those. After self hosting NC for years I’m really happy spreading out the tasks over dedicated services rather than having all my eggs in one basket.
I replaced Nextcloud with syncthing (files) & radicale (calendar, contacts & todos)
No-one used the calendar on NC, they just used their phones, Outlook, etc
No-one used the photo gallery on NC - that’s now Immich … again, with syncthing.
During the early days, just doing an update would break things.
For a small home setup, NC is too big, too clunky and just not the right tool.
Totally different for me:
- NC-calendar syncs two different calendars (work and private) accross all my devices.
- NC Photos with Memories organizes 2 TB of photos and has all the functions Immich has.
- NC Password Manager syncs my Passwords
- I share big files with my clients via NC and photo albums to friends and family.
- NC syncs and organizes different Input-folders for my paperless-ngx-server.
- I update NC with a small script, works every time
So it replaces at least 5 different Programs. And it’s 80 % private use, 20 % for my business. Not too big, not too clunky, just the right tool.
the base install is still pretty lean, its only hulking if you enable all their new junk, but if you don’t enable all that, the default, at least when installed it was quite lean.
I love syncthing!! I have one VM with only debian an syncthing and that machine is backed-up frequently. All others PC’s and vm’s syncthing to that one machine.
All of them sync ~/downloads
All machines I use for coding also sync ~/code
My desktop machines sync ~/documents.
And so on. Works great (for me)
And here I am having used it for a decade and perfectly happy. I try other ones like Owncloud every once in a while and find them lacking. It was slow once upon a time but if you changed to postgres and used redis, it improved immensely. Today it’s quite fast and the sync has been working great for a long time.
Use docker-compose with the AIO and it’ll be a lot easier to manage. There’s example compose files in the github repo.
Yeah, I can see how someone that has “grown up with it” could be happy. But as and experienced sysadmin coming at it for the first time - the documentation is a bit lacking.
Well, when I moved to the AIO, the documentation was plain wrong on several points. I submitted a bunch of changes that I had to do to make it work and they worked those changes in for the most part. Now it seems pretty workable, as a friend of mine used it to set his instance up and said it seemed to go fairly smoothly.
Nextcloud it just too heavy I totally agree, and everything feels slow and sluggish.
For just files I use Syncthing and couldn’t be happier, it just works in the background without a central server just syncs the files between phones, PCs and laptops by itself. I set it up like 5 years ago when I had enough of Nextcloud and to be honest most of the time I forget that I have it, but I use it every day to sync my password database for KeePassXC, my music, my private and work documents between all my devices.
Use docker or podman compose https://hub.docker.com/_/nextcloud/
Nextcloud does not need a domain. Ip is fine.
Does it need to be an external IP? I was going to look into setting it up soon but if that’s the case I think I’ll just stick with SMB shares or maybe try syncthing
No
No internal domain could connect to anything if it wasn’t resolved for an ip.
Local IPv4 work. Global ipv4 work. Ipv6 works. Mesh vpn ips work. Any ip works.
You may have to adjust the config.php (iirc) to add the ip/domain to trusted domains
Thanks, in that case I’ll look into it at some point!
Use docker or podman compose https://hub.docker.com/_/nextcloud/
I could do that - I guess I was just pointing out that someone coming to Nextcloud and following the install instructions does not have a great experience.
Nextcloud does not need a domain. Ip is fine.
So, their documentation is wrong?
Again - not a great experience for a first time user.
Nextcloud wants you to buy their stuff.
If you want to selfhost you have to read “everything” and know what you do.
I have no idea about that all in one setup. But yes, the sentence “nextcloud can not be reached via IP” is wrong
Alternatives? https://filebrowser.org/
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Filebrowser is great, it just lacks two things 1) 2FA and 2) the always upcoming OnlyOffice integration. If we got those two nothing else could ever compete with it. It already does pre-views and text editing, but Office documents would be great.
one thing still stopping me from using it is the lack of upload links. if i cannot send a link in my vacation group that everyone uploads their images to, the tool is out of the question.
When creating a user, bind them to a folder, then when they login with said user, they only see that folder. That’s the way I’ve been handing out uploadable links.
Yeah, that’s a good one as well.
Nextcloud file sync is a convenient centralized solution but it’s not designed for performance. Nothing about Nextcloud is designed for performance. It’s an “everything and the kitchen sink” multi-user cloud solution. That is nice for a lot of reasons. Nextcloud Sync is essentially a drop-in replacement for Google Drive or OneDrive or Dropbox that multiple people can use and that’s awesome. It works the same way as those tools, which is a blessing and a curse.
Nextcloud is for the same role you SAY you want, “All I want is a simple file sync setup like onedrive but without the microsoft.” That’s what it is. But I don’t think it’s what you’re actually asking for, and it’s not supposed to be. It has its role, and it’s good at that role. But I don’t think you actually want what you say you want, because in the details you’re describing something totally different.
If you want performance sync for just files, SyncThing is made for this. It has better conflict resolution. It has better decentralized connectivity, it doesn’t need the public IP server. It uses a very different approach to configuration. Its configuration is front-loaded, it takes a fair bit of work to get things talking to each other. It’s not suitable for the same things Nextcloud Sync is. But once you have it set up it’s rock solid reliable and blazing fast.
Personally I use both SyncThing and NextCloud Sync. I use them for different purposes, in different situations. NextCloud Sync takes care of my Windows documents and pictures, I use it to share photos with my family. I use it to sync one of the factors for my password vault. It works fine for this.
I also use SyncThing for large data sets that require higher performance. I have almost 400 GB of shared program data, (and game data/saved games), some of which I sync with SyncThing to multiple workstations in different parts of the country. It can deal with complex simultaneous usage that sometimes causes conflicts. It supports fine tuning sync strategies and files to ignore using configuration dotfiles. It’s a great tool. I couldn’t live without it. But I use both. They both have their place.
I use both as well. They server different purposes. When my wife wants to take a quick scan of a paper document and archive it instantly, or have pictures auto-upload, or open and edit a document we worked on a year ago, all on her IPhone, the Nextcloud client works great and really has no competition in the iOS world. When I want to keep the files in my home directory, including some big, regularly changing files, instantly synced between computers and hosted VMs, Syncthing is amazing. I also add Syncthing shares as an external source in Nextcloud, so I can open those files via the web. As others have said, Nextcloud works fine, provided you don’t start installing all sorts of “apps” you don’t need -stick to the basics.
There’s a lot of stuff going on here, so let me break down your post for each issue:
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You need to understand the difference between a
docker runcommand, and detaching to run a container in the background. Just running it with ‘run’ keeps it in the foreground. -
For the passphrase issue: https://github.com/nextcloud/all-in-one/discussions/1786
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Lastly, if you’re not familiar with containers, and this is a single purpose machine, you’d be better off just running the bare project on the host. If there’s no need for containerization, just skip it.
You need to understand the difference between a docker run command, and detaching to run a container in the background. Just running it with ‘run’ keeps it in the foreground.
Yes, I understand this. I was just highlighting that it’s not a great experience for a new user to follow the instructions to setup a server and be left with it running in the foreground.
For the passphrase issue: https://github.com/nextcloud/all-in-one/discussions/1786
Thanks! This should get me past my current hurdle so I can do some more testing. Again - not a great experience to have to come to a forum to get help to find a passphrase. I’m pretty sure I didn’t miss any steps?
Lastly, if you’re not familiar with containers, and this is a single purpose machine, you’d be better off just running the bare project on the host. If there’s no need for containerization, just skip it.
I’m familiar with containers, but think they’re overused. Stupid little things that are a single Python script (for example) shipping as a Docker image! But, I thought Nextcloud was complex enough to be worthy of a container? This is not a single purpose machine, but I’m an old, retired, sysadmin - I have no problem running a few different servers on the same host.
Are you referring to the “Archive” Community Project installation method?
No, just clone the project and run it without a container. The docs cover that as well.
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My biased opinion is that most people run Nextcloud on an underpowered platform, and/or they install and enable every possible addon. Many also skip some important configurations.
If you run NC on a bit more powerful machine, like a used USFF PC, with a good link to it, the experience is better than e.g. OneDrive.
Another thing is, people say “Nextcloud does too much”, but a default installation really doesn’t do much more than files. If you add every imaginable app, sure it slows down and gets buggy. Disable everything you don’t need, and the experience gets much better. You can disable even the built-in Photos app if you don’t need it.
Not saying NC is a speed daemon, but it really is OK. The desktop and mobile clients don’t get enough love, that’s true.
I’m talking about the “bare metal” installation or the community Apache/FPM container images. AIO seems to be a hot mess, and does just about everything a container shouldn’t be doing, but that’s just my opinion.
Many “self hosters” simply aren’t comfortable with the basics and expect things to be just an app you install. A simple two-tier app/db architecture is too complex for them (hence the prevalence of sqllite these days).
I’ve run nextcloud for many years and was simply surprised to hear that it’s “difficult to manage and slow”. My experience has been quite the contrary - it’s been easy to keep up to date and has never failed an upgrade or lost data. And it performs “well enough” since I don’t use low-cost hardware for servers.
My only complaint is that I need to run occ from a terminal rather than having a web interface for it. Makes running it in a k8s pod kinda annoying.
one of the main reasons SQLite is gaining in popularity is because people are realizing it has higher performance than separate databases in many usecases. Keeping the communication in-process cuts a lot of overhead (network, memcpys). The fact that you also don’t have to go through the trouble of configuring a separate service is just a bonus :-)
To be fair, it is slow on VPS with single core CPU and 2GB RAM. But that’s not normal…
Agreed. You also have to make sure you get everything configured correctly. The admin should get some suggestions for set up needed in the settings screen.
I also had to provision a lot of cpu cores for it. It doesn’t use much while idle, but try to pull a doc or picture, and you’ll see the cpu usage skyrocket.
And at the end of the day, it’s going to be heavily impacted by your disk speed. If you want superior performance, time to consider data center grade solid state drives.
Your opinion is a hard-learned lesson here. I only recently figured that out. The Nextcloud “app store” is just too tempting.
i am hoping for opencloud / ocis, a go rewrite of owncloud
I am waiting for opencloud to finish its calendar implementation. The only thing I have reservations about is the fact it doesn’t use a database to store file info. Not sure I trust their approach
