WhatTrees

Wrong. You are given some amount of control with your vote. You could choose to do something and are instead choosing to do nothing. You are choosing to abrogate your control.

Astroturfing is when there is a disingenuous coordinated campaign with a goal in mind. This post is specifically against not voting or voting third party, and you came here to complain about seeing too many things like this post. If your complaint was about seeing too many voting / politics memes in general, I imagine you would recognize what sub this is and what month it is.

I don’t believe you would be calling an abundance of voting related memes in a political memes sub this close to an election with no goal in mind “astroturfing” unless you didn’t know what the word meant. The obvious implication is that you believe there is a disingenuous coordinated campaign against voting third party or not voting. My point is that there doesn’t have to be. It’s more likely that many people, myself included, agree with the message of the political meme in the politics sub, and probably more than normal since we are so close to the election.

Is it? Your complaint is that things you disagree with are appearing more frequently, which they do when people upvote them. Sorry most of us have similar feelings about not voting / voting third party, but the only reason you’d call it astroturfing is if you think it’s disingenuous.

“Things I disagree with are being upvoted so it must be a coordinated campaign”

No, it’s just fun to call people with harmfully stupid opinions words that correctly describe their mental state.

No, people like you are beyond convincing with reason, as you never reasoned your way into your position. It’s cathartic. And hopefully someone less brain damaged will see how incredibly dumb and dangerous your opinions are.

Yes, remember to let the trolley roll over the most people because doing something to save lives is identical to endorsing the trolley’s action that could be prevented.

And again, everyone knows it’s impossible to do two things, we can only choose to complain about the trolley or make it harm fewer people, not both!

Ahh yes, because a wall is the same as military camps for immigrants. Sending troops to go door to door to arrest millions the same as a wall that hasn’t done anything!

I don’t know why you seem incapable of seeing that two bad things can be unequally bad. Speeding and murder are both wrong, but one of them is way worse. A Harris admin who makes legal crossing more difficult is not good, but better than a Trump admin making concentration camps.

You will be responsible for the camps and the trans genocide because you are incapable of doing the bare minimum to stop it. All the while pretending that taking no action means you also take no moral responsibility. You don’t. You have the power to make those bad outcomes less likely and you are actively choosing to do nothing.

Of course, because obviously the lives of American trans people are less important than your feeling of self-righteousness at not voting. Let’s let the trolley roll over trans people here and abroad! That’s definitely better than at least saving one of them with the little power we have!

Yes of course. They will definitely get the same outcome whether Trump or Harris wins. Trump totally wouldn’t do things Harris wouldn’t to make the lives of immigrants and trans people worse. After all, they both support military camps for immigrants and bans on trans healthcare, right?

I don’t imply they only exist under Trump, I specifically said that even if they stayed the same under Harris that would be better than allowing Trump to make them worse. If you don’t see that Trump has been saying he will make the lives of immigrants and trans people worse if he had the power I can’t help you. Maybe open your fucking eyes. At least Harris isn’t advocating for banning medical care for trans folks or using the military to round up immigrants and hold them in military camps.

Thanks to Harris, abortion rights have been preserved in America? There was no meaningful* change under her administration?

Jesus Christ dude, learn how to read. We already covered this. Harris doesn’t have an administration, she is part of Biden’s. Things got worse because of actions Trump took while he was in office. Remember the part about taking a civics class to leave about SC appointments and the filibuster? Again, even if she doesn’t make abortion access better, that’s objectively better than allowing Trump to institute a nation ban.

Why are you desperate to make this personal and attack me rather than stay on topic?

Porque no los dos? I’m attacking your dipshit opinions and your actions of choosing to not vote and allow trump to win and make the lives of everyone worse.

Why are you desperate to discuss Trump instead of Harris?

We’ve talking about both this whole time, you just want to pretend that allowing Trump to will is totally separate from voting for Harris. There are only two outcomes here, Trump wins and makes things worse, or Harris wins and she doesn’t.

Removed by mod

Yes, it’s totally a strawman. You definitely don’t think that we should not pull the lever and instead question why the trolley exists. That’s definitely not what your original comment said. Because those two are mutually exclusive anyway. We can only ever do one thing, like question the existence of the trolley or pull the lever to save more lives. It’s definitely not possible to vote to keep things from getting worse while also working the other 364 days to dismantle the trolley.

I love that you cut off the quote mid sentence, conveniently leaving out the part that would have answered your dumbass question. No improvement to abortion access is objectively better than working to make things worse. If those are the only two options, we all have a moral obligation to keep things from getting worse.

You’re the one who implied it was the Dems fault because it happened while they were in power. Harris isn’t president and so couldn’t have done anything either way for abortion. But she certainly hasn’t made them worse and is not in favor of making abortion access more difficult. Trump, on the other hand, will actively work to make them worse.

I’m sorry, what is Harris’ stated position in BLM vs Trump’s? Which one of them said “please don’t be too nice” to them while talking to cops about suspects? Which one of them sent DHS to black-bag protestors during BLM again?

What are you, 5? “I know you are but what am I?”

“I don’t have any moral responsibility because I believe the trolley shouldn’t exist in the first place.” Totally nuanced and not completely missing the point of the analogy at all. If only everyone knew we could just magically make the trolley disappear we could have skipped over the decades of philosophy written about the trolley problem because the solution is so easy!

A trolley problem format meme depicts the genocide of Palestinians on one track and the false equivalence of genocide to LGBT, BLM, and abortion on the other track.

It’s not a false equivalence, there is no equivalence argued for in the meme. It points out that genocide in Gaza will happen on either track, but only one of them will actively make things worse for other groups I care about also. It’s not calling them equivalent, in fact it’s arguing they are not equivalent which is why we have a moral obligation to keep It off the track with more people on it. At best, the outcome for Gaza is equivalent, but the outcome for others is not.

Who says it’s not getting worse?

Are you delusional enough to think that Trump and Harris will have identical outcomes for the other groups listed? Even if Harris doesn’t “fix” those issues, preventing them from getting worse is better than allowing them to get worse. No improvement on abortion access is objectively better than a national abortion ban or anything else Trump (or really, the Heritage Foundation) wants.

I should explain why Democrats who endorse a genocide of brown people might be bad on BLM??

Ah yes, because Harris isn’t as anti genocide as we want, it’s totally logical to assume she would be in favor of black people dying more at the hands of police. Yes, that totally follows. And definitely the best option to improve policing is to let Trump be in charge. He will totally not work to make things worse.

Oh yes, the guy who can’t even take 5 minutes to vote is totally devoting his free time to making things better. Do you think any of the other shit you talked about will be easier under Trump than Harris? You are choosing to let things get worse for the people you claim to care about just so you can feel morally superior by not “participating”. News flash, choosing to not vote is still a choice with consequences for the people you are virtue signalling about. Choosing not to pull the lever doesn’t make you not morally responsible for the people who chose not to save.

You think it’s impossible to make a difference by voting and also by doing other things. I think voting to keep things from getting worse is the bare fucking minimum. If you can’t even take a few minutes out of one day to mark a sheet of paper to keep things from getting worse I don’t believe for a second are you doing anything to make things better.

And your solution is… to let the trolley roll over them anyway while feeling morally superior. Unless you have some plan of removing the trolley before January, you are choosing to let it crush them anyway. Choosing to not vote or pull the lever is also a choice that you will have to live with and one that requires moral justification.

Does it? Is “fixed” the only bar that matters, or is “better” not still valuable? What about simply “not actively getting worse”? Is there no value in taking the smallest of steps to keep things from getting actively worse, or even attempting to stop them from getting worse? Does that prevent you from taking bigger steps to work for a better world? Do you think unions, mass protests, and other means of systemic change will magically be easier under Hitler 2.0 than a Dem?

You’ve asked this other question like 4 times in this thread so far, you must really think it’s a gotcha.

Let’s imagine for a second that Harris and Trump are indistinguishable on the question of Gaza (they aren’t, but let’s pretend your fantasy reality exists for a moment). That would mean that any choice results in the same outcome. That makes that question a wash. Choosing to vote for Harris, Trump, or not vote all have the same outcome on that front. But what about the other issues that matter to people? Should we let abortion access get more difficult in the meantime? Should we let the party that doesn’t believe there are any issues with policing into power over the one that admits there’s an issue but hasn’t fixed it yet?

Your question is incredibly dumb, not only because you seem to think that something happening while X party is in power means that X party is responsible (someone never took a civics class and learned about SC appointments or the filibuster) but because it’s entirely possible for a party to be good on one issue and bad on another. The Dem establishment is wrong about Gaza, what the hell does that have to do with abortion? Why would they be bad on abortion and BLM just because they are bad on this issue?