I’m really sick and tired of head-in-the-sand liberals pushing us over the cliff to fascism and then having the utter fucking gall to try to gaslight us that it’s our fault, not theirs.
When you decide that the better option is getting out of the car and jumping off of the cliff yourself, that’s when it starts being your fault.
You can apply all the maybes and the shoulda, coulda, woulda’s you want to try to make your point, but the math simply does not work in your favor. Not even close to it. You are grossly overestimating the size of the Arab/Muslim/Palestine population and their supporters, underestimating the size of the Jewish community and where their support lies, and grossly over-representing the effect of the general population, where this issue didn’t even crack the top 10.
And I just want to restate for the record: I agree with you. We are on the same side here. But supporters of Gaza are simply grossly outnumbered by the Jewish population and those who support Israel, and if Harris had supported Gaza, she’d have lost a million more votes. That’s got nothing to do with which side is right or wrong, or zionism, or judaism, or which side is morally right. It’s just math. There’s more of them. It’s that simple. The entire situation was a lose-lose situation for Biden the day Israel decided that schools and hospitals somehow became valid military targets. From a political standpoint, Harris chose the least politically shitty option.
Well, it was the 1800s, so I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of the time they just took the person’s word for it in the rare situations where it mattered, and how successful you were was probably based on how rich and white you looked. Think of it…how the hell was someone in Atlanta, Ga. supposed to prove or disprove whether the man standing in front of him was or wasn’t born in Boston, Ma? It’s not like they could call and verify or something. Probably little more than “Yeah, you look like you could be from Boston. You’re good.”
It does among the affected populations. Which makes sense. But to the average voter without any skin in the game, it didn’t crack the top 10.
Why are you only including Palestinian Americans when this anti-genocide sentiment is also shared by the overwhelming majority of Arab Americans and Muslim Americans
Because even if you combine the total Palestinian and Arab/Muslim population, they’re still nowhere close to the Jewish voting population. Again, it’s just simple numbers.
as well as the majority of the general populous?
The issue doesn’t even crack the top 10 for them.
All your doing is conflating Zionism with Judaism to justify the actions of the campaign
Protip: When you have to resort with thinly veiled accusations of antisemitism to make your argument, you might wanna re-evaluate your argument.
There are 160,000 Palestinians in the US. There are 5.8 million Jewish adult voters in the US.
79% of them voted for Harris. Or just shy of 4.6 million voters
25% considered Israel a major policy item. Or just shy of 1.15 million Harris voters.
Which means that had she supported Gaza, she would have lost about 1.15 million Jewish people who consider Israel a top priority. Which means for every supporter of Gaza she would have picked up, she’d have lost 5 Jewish votes. Which means she would have lost even harder. That’s got nothing to do with judaism or zionism or which choice is morally correct or not. That’s just math. You may not agree with them, but thare are more of them than there are of you. By a large margin.
First, 51% is hardly a ringing endorsement of anything. A technical majority, yes. But a statistical tie and certainly not overwhelming support.
Also, by your logic, this means she would have lost a little under half the Jewish vote. Here’s the problem with that. That still dwarfs Palestinians and supporters of Gaza. By a large margin. Which means she still would have lost, probably by a wider margin. Maybe not as wide as I originally said, but wider nonetheless. At Best, it would have gotten her Michigan. But in doing so, she would have likely risked even more states with large Jewish populations.
“Actually, we find that the 14th amendment really only applies to foreign white people, as the original founding fathers were slave owners who did not view either black or native american people as actual people, and certainly would not have granted them citizenship. Given the original intent of the Founding fathers, not only do we rule that the 14th amendment only applies to foreign white people, but we are simultaneously invalidating the Civil Rights act of 1964, reversing the previous Supreme Court ruling in Brown vs. Board of Education, and striking down the 19th amendment as an unconstitutional violation of the original intent of the Founding Fathers.”
– This supreme court, very possibly.
The fact that, if Harris did change from the policy of unconditional military support, she would have certainly flipped swing states and won the election does absolutely make me mad too.
I have to strongly disagree here. Keep in mind, I support Gaza. But supporters of Israel far outnumber supporters of Gaza, especially outside of Michigan. It basically put Biden and Harris in a lose-lose situation, because no matter which side they took, somebody was going to get pissed off. Had they shown more support for Gaza, they’d have pissed off far more Jews and she’d have lost the election anyway. Probably by an even wider margin. Whether it was the morally correct choice is a matter of personal opinion, but the choice she made is the choice that was the least shitty option politically.
Yes. Simple majority is all that’s needed in the House on most if not all matters anyway. And the only thing that would be in the GOP’s way would be the filibuster, which they can hand-wave away any time they want with a simple majority vote.
And keep in mind. They can just make up the rules as they go along now. They can literally play Calvinball with the Constitution. If Trump demands it, and the House and Senate vote for it, and the Supreme Court rubber stamps it, and the majority of state governments either go with it or at least don’t oppose it…who’s gonna stop them?
If Trump feels like saying that the 14th no longer applies to brown people because fuck you that’s why, and Congress votes in favor of a law that says the 14th no longer applies to brown people, and the Supreme Court says “Yep, fuck brown people.”, then that’s the law of the land regardless of what we think of it, because we individually do not have the power to stop it, and collectively just voted in favor of it.
And keep in mind…there’s nothing stopping Trump from replacing “the 14th no longer applies to brown people” with “Women no longer have the right to vote” or “Freedom of the Press does not apply to those critical of the Trump administration”. If no branch of government is willing to uphold and enforce the law, the law may as well not exist. The same goes for your rights and protections.
No. No, no, no, no, no, a thousand times no.
Trump has returned to power. He has both houses of Congress under his thumb, and control of the Supreme Court. A majority of states are Republican controlled, with many state governments having GOP supermajorities. People such as Jim Jordan, Lauren Boebert, and Marjorie Taylor Greene are in positions of influence, and people like RFK and Bald Dracula Stephen Miller are going to be filling top government positions.
**These are the people who would be writing up a new Constitution. ** Democrats would largely have the privilege of sitting on the sidelines and having about as much input in the process as a 3rd string quarterback calling plays at the Super Bowl. A Constitution written by these people would make the Handmaid’s Tale seem like a liberal paradise by comparison.
Trump is already taking a giant shit on the Constitution and he hasn’t even been sworn in yet. The last thing we need to do is make his job infinitely easier by calling for a Constitutional Convention any time in the foreseeable future.
Ok, but the question mostly still stands. (Note, none of what I’m about to say is directed at you specifically. I’m using “you” in the general sense here.)
Explain the logic in that reasoning. Explain the logic in protesting Harris’s support for Israel by allowing Trump to return to power, knowing he is going to make things actively worse. And if there is no logic in their reasoning, how was Harris supposed to appeal to them? Wouldn’t that necessarily mean that any attempts at getting their vote was doomed from the start anyway?
And for all the outrage we’ve been hearing about from them about Harris’s support of Israel, why is the same community largely responding with crickets when Trump and Netanyahu announce their plans to fulfill their promise to ratchet up the genocide?
Seriously. Make it make sense. Because to me, if you’re outraged over Harris supporting Israel because of the Gaza genocide but aren’t even more outraged over this announcement, then your problem with Harris wasn’t actually her support of Israel now, was it?
Ok, so answer this for me:
How does either actively voting for Trump, or abstaining from voting knowing it’s a de-facto vote for Trump, help to improve that situation in any way at all?
In fact, how does allowing Trump to return to power not make the situation actively worse?
And do you still feel that it was the right choice now, knowing that Israel announced that they plan to annex the west bank with Trump’s blessing?
See, logic would dictate that this would be immediately laughed out of court since a change of this magnitude would require a Constitutional Amendment. The 14th amendment does not say it only applies to certain people or under certain circumstances.
Then I remembered what timeline we’re in. Trump will have this gleefully rammed through Congress, and the Supreme Court will uphold it based on the long-standing legal principle of “Yeah, but they’re brown…”
And this is how Trump invalidates the Constitution. Not by decree. But by spending 4 years sidestepping the Constitution and telling his base that it’s just an outdated piece of paper with a bunch of guidelines that can be safely ignored the minute they become inconvenient. Or at least, inconvenient for Republicans.
And he’ll do it to thunderous applause.
and the people who couldn’t morally vote for a slower genocide are to blame.
Trump campaigned on speedrunning the genocide, not slowing it down. It’s not like his intentions weren’t clear.
The last time Trump got involved in the middle east, he pissed off a whole bunch of people by moving the embassy to Jerusalem, and the only thing his son in law managed to accomplish was getting $2 billion from the Saudis which the family still won’t explain. But this is the guy you essentially endorsed by either voting for Trump or staying home? That’s like stopping yourself from shooting yourself in the foot by pointing the gun at your head instead.
My brother in Christ his family were immigrants here at one point, not to mention his wife and her parents…
But she had a decent rack 20 years ago so that qualifies her and everybody associated with her under the “look at those tits, tho” exception.
Because the people openly protesting a genocide opted for the man who promised to genocide harder.. But hey, keep playing yourselves. Let me know how that works out for you.
Actually, there is a plan to stop the genocide in Gaza. Israel already announced it:
Kill everybody in Gaza, annex the west bank. After that, Voila! no more genocide!
"Of course!
In return:
See how easy that was?"
– Donald Trump.
You can feel free to believe whatever you want, and I’m obviously not going to convince you otherwise. The math just does not agree with you. Outside of Michigan, the number of pro-Palestine people would barely qualify as a rounding error let alone be enough to swing a single other state. You are grossly over-estimating their voting power at literally every level. The subsection of Jews that even consider this a top issue to begin with outnumbers the total number of voting Palestinians and their supporters more than 5 times over. Your numbers just do not add up no matter how much you really, really stretch things to make them.