I know… and it’s not exactly an improvement.
When they are not planning to quit (which was the point I was addressing), it doesn’t seem like an actual improvement.
No, you people keep saying it’s better and an improvement, the video says that it is less bad as we know right now, but also adds that there hasn’t been enough studies to declare it as a fact or a standard to keep a minimum safety with all the chemicals used in them (like the filters on the cigarettes, they were added for a reason… And even with them cigarettes are terrible)
So I’m still waiting for a reason that addict A switching from smoking to vapes makes it better, since addict A don’t plan on quitting.
On the short-term it might be better, but mid-term or long-term what is going on with the new toxins he will inhale?
And well yes, new health hazards will be discovered about vaping, there is no doubt about it. Just as new health hazards are still discovered about smoking.
But as of our scientific knowledge right now it’s better, and it’s unlikely to shift because the main source of toxins has been eliminated: combustion. I’ve yet to see a source that says otherwise and you have no other way than to use the current knowledge to make a choice.
I don’t really see your point, why should people keep doing what we know to be worse?
And what do you call mid, long-term? Because vaping has been around long enough to have people that have been doing it for almost 20 years.
why should people keep doing what we know to be worse?
This could apply to a lot of vices and it would be because it helps them cope with life (in a ver optimistic view).
Still I never said they should stick to smoking cigarettes since I’ve not denied once that vaping seems to actually help those who want to quit, but I guess shifting the conversation to that side sounds better for you.
And what do you call mid, long-term? Because vaping has been around long enough to have people that have been doing it for almost 20 years.
Which is worrying, if it’s been around that long but it’s still unregulated and with no standard about which chemicals can be used and why, what material for the coil and temperature or what kind of filter to use… but hey, it’s better than smoking because we exchange smoke for aerosols… right?
I’m not against vaping to quit smoking, I think that’s great, I’m against singing praises for a product that’s mostly clouded by bro-sayings and marketing and low information sources (since all the comments that defend it are usually trust me, bro), BUT as we all know, if something is too good to be true it most likely isn’t.
Because, hey, I’m not without vices, I use a bong for cannabis from time to time (very rarely, as a copping mechanism), I looked into the dry-herb vapes but I didn’t like the part about the battery waste (yes, even if they can be replaced that’s one more battery to the trash when it fails to recharge) and the induction heaters are… stupidly expensive in my country (around $9,000MXN and more) and hard to find but… I couldn’t trust that people claimed it was vapor/steam because… well… you are heating dry-herb to the point it creates some sort of mist but… wtf is that mist? where the fuck is the water to make steam and call it vapor? Specially since we are talking about a herb that is consumed dried and curated/preserved on low/controlled humidity.
To date I have no idea, so I can’t really trust that vaping cannabis is less damaging ONLY because there’s no smoke… or they claim it isn’t smoke.
I also don’t understand why you speak about water related to vapor. Vapor, or gas, is a state of matter, if you heat something, anything, it’ll vaporise (or boil as we say for water) into a gas. Different elements have different melting points, that’s why cannabis vaporisers have an adjustable temperature. Set it low and only the THC will vaporise, higher and you’ll get the CBD too. That’s why combustion is so bad, because the temperature is so high that almost everything vaporise, there is no point in having a temperature this high, it’ll vaporise so many toxic elements. We can discuss nicotine vaporisation because there can issues with elements coming from the flavouring, but for cannabis it’s very straightforward, using a lower temperature than what you get with combustion gets you all the interesting substances (maybe not some terpenes that gives some flavours) without a lot of the toxic ones. Also the herbs are never going to be 100% dry so they’ll have some water, creating a little bit of steam, but that’s only one of the many vaporised elements.
I’m not trying to shift the conversation, vaping is better as a replacement. Whether it’s to quit altogether or not afterwards is irrelevant.
Something being less harmful should not be taken immediatly as better… but if that’s enough for you then yes, everything else is irrelevant and it explains why you are happy with just that information, I’ll just leave my reply to this comment and stop wasting your time since it’s irrelevant.
Irrelevant reply ahead, do not read:
spoiler
I don’t get why you say it’s not regulated because it is, at least in my country and in a lot of others.
Depends on what we call regulated, if you mean legal to sell and consume, then yes it is (well… in my country the expresident wanted to ban it to return the control to the narcos but that’s besides the point).
I meant regulated as having a standard, which materials are safe to use, which chemicals are safe to use to create the aerosols, which materials are safe to use for the coil that will heat the product, if it needs to use a filter and which kind of filter and so on, and penalize brands that create harmful products.
There are a lot of research, the sources for the video you posted has some, here is another well known one.
The research you linked says further research is needed, due to many important differences in manufacture and content of every brand it’s not possible to give a gold standard, recommendation or to be certain about the negative effects of the heated tobacco aerosols.
I also don’t understand why you speak about water related to vapor
Because it matters, aerosols are also a gas but they cause a different effect on the body than steam and it reeks of marketing calling it vapor because addressing it as an aerosol has a negative perception.
Also the herbs are never going to be 100% dry so they’ll have some water, creating a little bit of steam, but that’s only one of the many vaporised elements
I REALLY doubt the ammount of water the dried nugs keep inside them is enough to generate enough steam for the ammount of gas one can inhale from a dry-herb vape… as someone who one time forgot to add water to a lemongrass infusion (made the old way, adding the grass directly to the water and then boil it), I don’t think what came out of that grass could have been steam past the first seconds.
I know… and it’s not exactly an improvement.
When they are not planning to quit (which was the point I was addressing), it doesn’t seem like an actual improvement.
It is, smoking is worse for your health.
How is that guy trying to actually argue that vaping is as harmful as smoking? What an insane thing to say.
Compeling argument right there
Well the argument is the video you linked, I don’t have time to rewatch it but you can look in the sources:
https://sites.google.com/view/sources-vaping/
I suggest you watch the material you link in the future and I’ll point out that no one is arguing that vaping is safe, only less bad.
No, you people keep saying it’s better and an improvement, the video says that it is less bad as we know right now, but also adds that there hasn’t been enough studies to declare it as a fact or a standard to keep a minimum safety with all the chemicals used in them (like the filters on the cigarettes, they were added for a reason… And even with them cigarettes are terrible)
So I’m still waiting for a reason that addict A switching from smoking to vapes makes it better, since addict A don’t plan on quitting. On the short-term it might be better, but mid-term or long-term what is going on with the new toxins he will inhale?
Who’s “you people”?
And well yes, new health hazards will be discovered about vaping, there is no doubt about it. Just as new health hazards are still discovered about smoking. But as of our scientific knowledge right now it’s better, and it’s unlikely to shift because the main source of toxins has been eliminated: combustion. I’ve yet to see a source that says otherwise and you have no other way than to use the current knowledge to make a choice.
I don’t really see your point, why should people keep doing what we know to be worse?
And what do you call mid, long-term? Because vaping has been around long enough to have people that have been doing it for almost 20 years.
This could apply to a lot of vices and it would be because it helps them cope with life (in a ver optimistic view).
Still I never said they should stick to smoking cigarettes since I’ve not denied once that vaping seems to actually help those who want to quit, but I guess shifting the conversation to that side sounds better for you.
Which is worrying, if it’s been around that long but it’s still unregulated and with no standard about which chemicals can be used and why, what material for the coil and temperature or what kind of filter to use… but hey, it’s better than smoking because we exchange smoke for aerosols… right?
I’m not against vaping to quit smoking, I think that’s great, I’m against singing praises for a product that’s mostly clouded by bro-sayings and marketing and low information sources (since all the comments that defend it are usually trust me, bro), BUT as we all know, if something is too good to be true it most likely isn’t.
Because, hey, I’m not without vices, I use a bong for cannabis from time to time (very rarely, as a copping mechanism), I looked into the dry-herb vapes but I didn’t like the part about the battery waste (yes, even if they can be replaced that’s one more battery to the trash when it fails to recharge) and the induction heaters are… stupidly expensive in my country (around $9,000MXN and more) and hard to find but… I couldn’t trust that people claimed it was vapor/steam because… well… you are heating dry-herb to the point it creates some sort of mist but… wtf is that mist? where the fuck is the water to make steam and call it vapor? Specially since we are talking about a herb that is consumed dried and curated/preserved on low/controlled humidity.
To date I have no idea, so I can’t really trust that vaping cannabis is less damaging ONLY because there’s no smoke… or they claim it isn’t smoke.
I’m not trying to shift the conversation, vaping is better as a replacement. Whether it’s to quit altogether or not afterwards is irrelevant.
I don’t get why you say it’s not regulated because it is, at least in my country and in a lot of others.
There are a lot of research, the sources for the video you posted has some, here is another well known one.
I also don’t understand why you speak about water related to vapor. Vapor, or gas, is a state of matter, if you heat something, anything, it’ll vaporise (or boil as we say for water) into a gas. Different elements have different melting points, that’s why cannabis vaporisers have an adjustable temperature. Set it low and only the THC will vaporise, higher and you’ll get the CBD too. That’s why combustion is so bad, because the temperature is so high that almost everything vaporise, there is no point in having a temperature this high, it’ll vaporise so many toxic elements. We can discuss nicotine vaporisation because there can issues with elements coming from the flavouring, but for cannabis it’s very straightforward, using a lower temperature than what you get with combustion gets you all the interesting substances (maybe not some terpenes that gives some flavours) without a lot of the toxic ones. Also the herbs are never going to be 100% dry so they’ll have some water, creating a little bit of steam, but that’s only one of the many vaporised elements.
Something being less harmful should not be taken immediatly as better… but if that’s enough for you then yes, everything else is irrelevant and it explains why you are happy with just that information, I’ll just leave my reply to this comment and stop wasting your time since it’s irrelevant.
Irrelevant reply ahead, do not read:
spoiler
Depends on what we call regulated, if you mean legal to sell and consume, then yes it is (well… in my country the expresident wanted to ban it to return the control to the narcos but that’s besides the point).
I meant regulated as having a standard, which materials are safe to use, which chemicals are safe to use to create the aerosols, which materials are safe to use for the coil that will heat the product, if it needs to use a filter and which kind of filter and so on, and penalize brands that create harmful products.
The research you linked says further research is needed, due to many important differences in manufacture and content of every brand it’s not possible to give a gold standard, recommendation or to be certain about the negative effects of the heated tobacco aerosols.
Because it matters, aerosols are also a gas but they cause a different effect on the body than steam and it reeks of marketing calling it vapor because addressing it as an aerosol has a negative perception.
I REALLY doubt the ammount of water the dried nugs keep inside them is enough to generate enough steam for the ammount of gas one can inhale from a dry-herb vape… as someone who one time forgot to add water to a lemongrass infusion (made the old way, adding the grass directly to the water and then boil it), I don’t think what came out of that grass could have been steam past the first seconds.