In a series of posts on X Monday night, Musk said that he would not want to grow Tesla to become a leader in artificial intelligence and robotics without a compensation plan that would give him ownership of around 25% of the company’s stock. That would be about double the roughly 13% stake he currently owns.

Just casually asking for a roughly 80 Billion dollar pay raise. But at this point would Tesla be better off without him?

  • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    and no one can explain how it is actually profitable.

    Hang on a sec, its publicly trade company. Its pretty easy to see how its profitable especially compared to other legacy automakers.

    Tesla vs Ford numbers:

    On the other hand, “let’s look at Tesla and the Model 3. Tesla is aiming for 25% gross margin on the Model 3 and mid-teens profit margin (let’s say 14%). The average price of the Model 3 is projected at around $42,000… [so] the average gross margin on a Model 3 would be $10,500 and profit margin would be $5,880. Compared to Ford’s average vehicle profit margin of $1,100, the Model 3 would be 5x as profitable.” source

    Disclaimer: the source is from March of 2023 and Tesla has cut prices (which means less profit) since then, but they had a lot of room to do so with so much profit per car.

    So one could say that Tesla has been able to charge a premium for a cheaper car, or they’ve been able to reduce manufacturing cost for a moderately priced car. Both result in high margin returns for the company.

    • Hypx@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      They have a direct sales model which is more expensive to operate and exaggerates profit margin. There’s also reason to believe they are wildly understating warranty costs plus ignoring R&D costs. People who look closely have consistently concluded that Tesla cannot really be making money, or have very narrow profit margins at best.

      Huge price cuts will compound these problems dramatically.

      • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        They have a direct sales model which is more expensive to operate and exaggerates profit margin.

        How would adding a middleman that also has to make profit make the company earn less? Wouldn’t direct sales allow Tesla to sell for a higher price because they can sell at retail instead of a “wholesale” cost normally sold to a dealership?

        People who look closely have consistently concluded that Tesla cannot really be making money, or have very narrow profit margins at best.

        I’d be interested in reading more on this assertion. Do you have a source you can point me to?

        • Hypx@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          You have to build the entire system out yourself. That costs a lot of money. The dealership model also costs the manufacturer basically zero dollars, because it really profits on used car sales and maintenance works. You don’t make anymore money by having your own dealerships. The whole argument that there’s some secret behind Tesla’s business smacks of gaslighting, not something that actually holds up to reason.

          It’s been a long standing issue with Tesla’s accounting. No one can really explain how profits are actually being generated going back years, especially considering everyone in the West is losing money on EVs. It’s also being ran entirely by sycophants and people with minimal qualifications, with zero accountability anywhere. So it just seems, via Occam’s razor, that they’re cooking the books.

          • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            The dealership model also costs the manufacturer basically zero dollars, because it really profits on used car sales and maintenance works.

            The manufacturer also has to pay dealerships for warranty work on vehicles. Company owned services centers wouldn’t.

            The whole argument that there’s some secret behind Tesla’s business smacks of gaslighting, not something that actually holds up to reason.

            I’m interested in that source you talked about the “people who looked closely”.

            • Hypx@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              You still have to pay out warranty work either way. Someone has to fix it after all.

              There are many people who have made the claim that Tesla doesn’t really make money. You can google it up. Just look for stuff like “tesla profits” or “tesla not profitable” and you see it. Also, the only people who do vigorously insistent that Tesla is profitable are the fanboy investors and some of the least credible analysts out there. It screams gaslighting no matter how you look at all.

        • rsuri@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Not OP but regarding sources, there’s a group referred to as “TSLAQ” (Q referring to a letter typically added to bankrupt stock symbols, but they’re not entirely free of conspiratorial thinking) that’s been critical of TSLA and others including David Einhorn who have criticized their accounting practices. I’ve not had time to look much into it myself but see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc.#Accounting