The medication is a blood thinner, the patient is a competent adult not in delirium, A&OX4. There are 2 ways to see this:

Manager’s and a group of doctor’s POV: you are a nurse and it’s your job and duty to do that. Plus, we know better than him what’s good for him. These people have built their identity around working in healthcare and to them this means I have to stay in the room and make sure the patient takes the medication.

My POV: nursing is not a calling but a job. What my manager and these doctors think is stupid:

  • the patient is a competent adult not in delirium, A&OX4. He’s old enough to know what happens if he doesn’t take the medication because we have told him a number of times already. I’m not his father and I’m not ready to treat a competent adult like a child.

  • I have other patients and I’m not going to waste my time watching a patient silently until he decides to take the medication. I’m charting that I left the medication next to him and told him he needs it and why and that I have other patients to take care of.

  • It is stupid to watch a person while doing nothing when I should be working with my other patients. It’s also invasive as f*ck.

I see it like this: my manager and this group of doctors are not ready to respect a person’s autonomy whereas I’m not ready to ignore this same autonomy, even if it means a negative outcome. Respecting a consenting adult’s autonomy means respecting his bad choices as well. I feel this group of doctors and my manager are not ready to respect any patient’s autonomy.

At this moment, this is a hill I’m willing to die on. AITA?

ETA: I wrote about a group of doctors, because there are other doctors that don’t give me hard time if a patient refuses his medication, they simply chart it and move on. I like working with doctors like this because I feel they don’t judge and respect the patient’s autonomy as well.

  • MelonYellow@lemmy.caEnglish
    24·
    10 months ago

    I get the autonomy thing and refusing care is cool and all. Totally their right. I just remind them what the adverse outcome for refusal could be, document that and move on. BUT if I’m charting that the patient took the medication, I’m 100% standing there to witness it because I’m not just gonna trust them on it and potentially falsely document. People cheek their meds, pocket them, take them at a later time with other meds to get high, or whatever the hell. DON’T blindly trust patients. But yeah. Basically - I just care about the legalities. Lol

    • vestmoria@linux.communityOPEnglish
      3·
      10 months ago

      BUT if I’m charting that the patient took the medication, I’m 100% standing there to witness it because I’m not just gonna trust them on it and potentially falsely document.

      What do you tell your patients that are in this gray zone where they don’t outright refuse the medication, but delay taking it, so they comply?

      Have you never engaged in a staring contest until that happens? Don’t you waste too much time? Doesn’t the patient get angry?

      DON’T blindly trust patients.

      help me out:

      I like helping competent people: they come to me with a problem and I look for a solution. If I don’t know the answer, I ask those who know it. I inform the patient about what I find out because they have a right to know and usually want to know and get better and they get proactive the more information they have. I help other adults solve problems.

      Treating competent adults like little liars is something I’ve never done and I don’t believe I can work nursing if my daily routine is gonna be like this.

      Maybe I’m very easy to manipulate? But if nursing means I have to treat the patient not as a person who comes for help, as a person I can trust but as an enemy trying to make my life difficult and lying to me, I need another job or to quit bedside.

      • MelonYellow@lemmy.caEnglish
        5·
        10 months ago

        For me, it’s all about reading people. If they’re really hmming and hawing, I might ask “what’s the matter?” to get a read on their concerns. Remind them of the benefits, that these are MD orders, maybe it’s a medication that they shouldn’t just stop cold, maybe they wanna talk to the MD first, maybe they had a bad experience and want to take an alternative med instead (and we can make that happen!), etc. Some are straight up scared to refuse😅 So I might remind them hey it’s totally your right to not take it. Depends on the patient really. But some give a firm “no” and I don’t argue with that.

        Now all of the above is assuming I have time, because sometimes it’s just too dang busy. Med pass is usually a 10, maybe 30 seconds max interaction. Keep it moving.

        The staring and angry reactions don’t phase me. Maybe it did when I was new. But you develop a thick skin real quick doing this job.

        At the end of the day, med pass must be witnessed or you risk false documentation. It ensures time accuracy in record-keeping too, as in you (and pharmacy, and all other providers) know the patient took it at this time and not an hour/hours later. There are all sorts of med interactions and domino effects to consider.

        As far as the not trusting patients thing - that doesn’t just come from nowhere. Obviously it would make all our lives easier if we could just trust people! But you see all types of scenarios in healthcare, whether it happens to you or a coworker. One day you’ll chart medication was given, maybe cardiac meds. Come in later and find the pills under their pillow or something. Maybe the patient codes later that night. I mean who knows. Just protect your license and don’t do risky shit that gets you burned. Because all it takes is one bad day.