anybody on the left withholding their vote at this point fundamentally disbelieves in a system with exactly two discrete options, so this type of post doesn’t persuade anybody
fundamentally disbelieves in a system with exactly two discrete options
except the polls are exactly about two discrete options. “not believing” in it is like not believing in gravity. it doesn’t make you philosopher, it makes you dumb moron.
Yeah I don’t “believe” our system best serves the common good. But I sure as hell will vote for Kamala because it’s very clear that is my best course of action to serve the common good. Voting for a third party won’t lead to a system where more parties have a voice, it will help Trump get into power, where only a single party has a voice, and any other voice will be silenced
Tbf, the Democratic party nomination process is not a 2-party system. They did say that back then, and they were wrong to do so - hoping that people wouldn’t notice that difference.
But now we are talking about the real deal, the thing that they were trying to falsely tie an equivalence to, the actual vote for the actual presidency. Democracy in the USA may not last the decade regardless, but voting one way is for ditching it in favor of Project 2025 and among other things, ironically enough even moar-er support for genocide, while the other is a vote for hopefully a little better than the current status quo.
Both offer short term pain and long term destruction… but not equally so.
How though? And more importantly, why? Like, what “leeway” does Kamala have to say anything different than she already has, which she could shift to?
Maybe after she wins yes, but at this point the choices are Trump vs. not-Trump, so I don’t see how a vote for a third-party would help in this case. At one point, with Bernie Sanders vs. Hillary Clinton there were different thoughts about how a vote for Bernie would cause Hillary to shift more towards the left - but most of that again gets back to the nomination process, not the final show-down between the two parties, and after that was a disastrous example of how voting for the 3rd-party candidate didn’t help the democratic party shift, except in the sense that it handed literally hundreds and hundreds of judicial nominees to the Republican party that, among other things, ended the protections of Roe v. Wade.
Two months ago the situation with Biden was VERY DIFFERENT than the situation now faced, with Kamala. Back then we could - and yay, did! - shift and pivot to adjust to the harsh realities that he was not capable of running again. We very likely would have lost if he had. But that was then, and this is now.
Anyway I think that I’m preaching to the converted here, so maybe I just misunderstood something that you said. Tbh, I don’t agree with your take on the OP - I think it really does show voting not for a 3rd party but voting for the other side b/c “bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe” (the title of the post), specifically wrt genocide. I think that b/c there are only 2 tracks shown… Also, the genocide being mentioned implicitly in the graphic (“but worse…”) shows how its focus is on short-term effects immediately after the election, not long-term ones about telling the Democratic party how the American populace would very much enjoy it if it would become more liberal if they would please and thank you very much.
Like, what “leeway” does Kamala have to say anything different than she already has, which she could shift to?
a significant enough chunk of her voter base credibly withholding a vote based on a desired policy change would force a shift toward that desired policy change
i’d say biden’s platform in 2020 was significantly more left-wing than clinton’s in 2016
But that was then, and this is now.
this is the same “it’s too late” or “it’s too unprecedented” or whatever you want to pick that was exactly the justification for biden being kept in as long as he was
I think it really does show voting not for a 3rd party but voting for the other side b/c “bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe” (the title of the post), specifically wrt genocide.
people the post targets aren’t voting red. they’re just not voting at all, or voting third party. it’s an argument to a position held by an insignificant fraction of the left-anti-harris crowd.
it doesn’t address the core issue they have. they’d say that continuing to vote for the least-bad party is the reason both parties are bad, and that at a certain point you have to attempt to force a more radical change.
Months ago was the time to make changes. Yeah, that’s what they said then too, except it was wrong then, as proven by the fact that the changes did happen.
Even if the words sound similar, now really is different than then. Voting has already begun - the fight to pick candidacies is long over and done. It is now long past time to pick a side.
If you want to vote 3rd party then go ahead - nobody is stopping you. Aside from all the news about some 3rd-party candidates receiving money from and having demonstrated ties to Russia (look it up if you haven’t heard), the Democrats do not seem to be taking such rhetoric as a credible “threat” though, for whatever reason. Probably bc they really are the best hope for the Palestinian people, as the latter recently confirmed by putting out a statement saying why they finally chose to endorse Kamala Harris’s campaign. You can ofc accuse the Dems of being very naive and disconnected from their voting base - that would be extremely difficult to argue against - and yet facts are facts.
anybody on the left withholding their vote at this point fundamentally disbelieves in a system with exactly two discrete options, so this type of post doesn’t persuade anybody
except the polls are exactly about two discrete options. “not believing” in it is like not believing in gravity. it doesn’t make you philosopher, it makes you dumb moron.
which is what people said before biden was replaced
Anyone who doesn’t “believe” that we have the system we have is beyond reaching
Yeah I don’t “believe” our system best serves the common good. But I sure as hell will vote for Kamala because it’s very clear that is my best course of action to serve the common good. Voting for a third party won’t lead to a system where more parties have a voice, it will help Trump get into power, where only a single party has a voice, and any other voice will be silenced
Yes it will. If a 3rd party gets 5% of the national vote they qualify for federal election funding which would make them more viable next time around.
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which is what people said before biden was replaced
Tbf, the Democratic party nomination process is not a 2-party system. They did say that back then, and they were wrong to do so - hoping that people wouldn’t notice that difference.
But now we are talking about the real deal, the thing that they were trying to falsely tie an equivalence to, the actual vote for the actual presidency. Democracy in the USA may not last the decade regardless, but voting one way is for ditching it in favor of Project 2025 and among other things, ironically enough even moar-er support for genocide, while the other is a vote for hopefully a little better than the current status quo.
Both offer short term pain and long term destruction… but not equally so.
they’re not suggesting a third party candidate can win
they’re suggesting that the democratic platform can shift
How though? And more importantly, why? Like, what “leeway” does Kamala have to say anything different than she already has, which she could shift to?
Maybe after she wins yes, but at this point the choices are Trump vs. not-Trump, so I don’t see how a vote for a third-party would help in this case. At one point, with Bernie Sanders vs. Hillary Clinton there were different thoughts about how a vote for Bernie would cause Hillary to shift more towards the left - but most of that again gets back to the nomination process, not the final show-down between the two parties, and after that was a disastrous example of how voting for the 3rd-party candidate didn’t help the democratic party shift, except in the sense that it handed literally hundreds and hundreds of judicial nominees to the Republican party that, among other things, ended the protections of Roe v. Wade.
Two months ago the situation with Biden was VERY DIFFERENT than the situation now faced, with Kamala. Back then we could - and yay, did! - shift and pivot to adjust to the harsh realities that he was not capable of running again. We very likely would have lost if he had. But that was then, and this is now.
Anyway I think that I’m preaching to the converted here, so maybe I just misunderstood something that you said. Tbh, I don’t agree with your take on the OP - I think it really does show voting not for a 3rd party but voting for the other side b/c “bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe” (the title of the post), specifically wrt genocide. I think that b/c there are only 2 tracks shown… Also, the genocide being mentioned implicitly in the graphic (“but worse…”) shows how its focus is on short-term effects immediately after the election, not long-term ones about telling the Democratic party how the American populace would very much enjoy it if it would become more liberal if they would please and thank you very much.
a significant enough chunk of her voter base credibly withholding a vote based on a desired policy change would force a shift toward that desired policy change
i’d say biden’s platform in 2020 was significantly more left-wing than clinton’s in 2016
this is the same “it’s too late” or “it’s too unprecedented” or whatever you want to pick that was exactly the justification for biden being kept in as long as he was
people the post targets aren’t voting red. they’re just not voting at all, or voting third party. it’s an argument to a position held by an insignificant fraction of the left-anti-harris crowd.
it doesn’t address the core issue they have. they’d say that continuing to vote for the least-bad party is the reason both parties are bad, and that at a certain point you have to attempt to force a more radical change.
Months ago was the time to make changes. Yeah, that’s what they said then too, except it was wrong then, as proven by the fact that the changes did happen.
Even if the words sound similar, now really is different than then. Voting has already begun - the fight to pick candidacies is long over and done. It is now long past time to pick a side.
If you want to vote 3rd party then go ahead - nobody is stopping you. Aside from all the news about some 3rd-party candidates receiving money from and having demonstrated ties to Russia (look it up if you haven’t heard), the Democrats do not seem to be taking such rhetoric as a credible “threat” though, for whatever reason. Probably bc they really are the best hope for the Palestinian people, as the latter recently confirmed by putting out a statement saying why they finally chose to endorse Kamala Harris’s campaign. You can ofc accuse the Dems of being very naive and disconnected from their voting base - that would be extremely difficult to argue against - and yet facts are facts.
See e.g. this article: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/17919598.
You misread, try it again.
Sorry what do you think they meant then?
Believing in something and believing something exists or is a certain state are two very different things.
You can believe that this despotic duopoly exists in such a way that there are only two outcomes, without believing such a system will ever function.