Found it first here - https://mastodon.social/@BonehouseWasps/111692479718694120
Not sure if this is the right community to discuss here in Lemmy?
I mean, they would have started appearing in there from the first moment that someone created one and hosted it somewhere, no? So it’s already been a thing for a couple years now, I believe.
Yeah but AI is a buzz word and hating it is fun at the current moment!
Well it is pretty shitty though. It needs conscousness and feelings. That crap out there is barely AI.
I’m wondering if we give AI consciousness is it more likely to identify humans as a threat to the Earth and try to eliminate us or would it empathize with it’s creators? Seems risky…
Humans are not a threat to the Earth. Do you mean that humans are a threat to the environment? That would mean that we’re a threat to ourselves. It wouldn’t make sense to destroy us to save us from ourselves.
What if the ai towed all the humans beyond the environment?
Into another environment?
This line of thinking assumes it would prioritize Earth exclusively over humans, which is only likely if the AI is created with that specific intent.
Doesn’t need to be super advanced AI to be used as a tool by irresponsible or malicious humans.
Rather hypocritical of you to do the exact same thing you’re accusing others of: hating on a strawman.
Ironic how your comment is centered around hating a group too, except you’re doing it on behalf of large corporations that are stealing other people’s work and polluting search results with soulless crap.
If I look up art on Google, I would want to see art, not AI slop. And until AI slop starts citing its sources so we can find the actual creative minds behind what it generated, searches are becoming more worthless.
Or you can just create a straw man to hate I guess
Lol at this account spamming AI related posts with angry unintelligible comments and trying to bait people into arguments
Zero art has been stolen.
You cannot steal a jpg.
And protecting copyright is supporting big corporations.
And protecting copyright is supporting big corporations.
Apart from - you know, all the photographers, designers, authors and musicians out there.
You mean the ones who routinely come out saying how X corporation stole their work and they received nothing for it?
The ones where if you try to challenge the corporations hoarding human cultural works you’ll find yourself in a legal battle you can’t afford to enter.
The amount of times an artist “wins” in the system vs a corporation is laughable. It’s designed to protect you and I, like the rest of the legal system does (it doesn’t).
You mean the ones who routinely come out saying how X corporation stole their work and they received nothing for it?
Yes.The ones who routinely use copyright to get some form of payment. I know several people who had their photographs reublished by the Daily Mail and subsequently got payment. It happens. It’s an imperfect system, but still one that allows small artists to make a living.
he amount of times an artist “wins” in the system vs a corporation is laughable.
I mean, it really isn’t. It’s the entire backbone of an industry whereby, for example a photographer or illustrator can supply woirk to a magazine on a single use license. It’s how people who supply photo libraries make a living. It’s how small bands have at least some protection.
I do like your libertarian line of reasoning. If the law doesn’t work very well, it should be abolished. I’ve seen people say the same thing about the EPA and OSHA.
The difference is, even if it worked properly I would still not be in favour of denying people freedom to use cultural works.
OpenAI corporation is stealing people’s work
Oh did they break into their house and take their only version?
Copying is not theft.
It’s really weird how so many people have become advocates for abolishing copyright the moment it benefits a giant corporation. No thought, no nuance, just “copyright bad.”
It would be like somebody shouting about abolishing unions during the Starbucks protests, because police unions exist.
People have been saying Copyright is BS since at least the 90s when Disney pulled their shenanigans (again) and probably even before that
But isn’t it funny that so many of them have emerged when their nuance-free absolutism helps a big corporation and not the people it’s harming?
Copyright is not the same thing as intellectual property though
Copyright is law which is used to prevent free copying of media, while “intellectual property” is a term cooked up by corporate suits to generalize copyright, trademarks, and patents and equate them with property law. Richard Stallman wrote about this.
It has become fashionable to toss copyright, patents, and trademarks—three separate and different entities involving three separate and different sets of laws—plus a dozen other laws into one pot and call it “intellectual property.” The distorting and confusing term did not become common by accident. Companies that gain from the confusion promoted it. The clearest way out of the confusion is to reject the term entirely.
Intellectual property comes before any of those things. If I paint a picture, it’s my intellectual property whether I apply for some legal definition or not.
It’s not the same thing as a copyright. Anyone can have intellectual property
OpenAI Corp applauds your defense of their theft
The music industry wants to honour you at their next awards night for fighting piracy.
I want protections for all smaller artists. Why are you fighting on behalf of OpenAI?
Because I want the abolishment of all copyright and IP. Why are you fighting against liberating human culture?
Um no, we’re defending actual open AI models, I couldn’t give 2 shits about OpenAI. They have the funding to license things, but that open source model? Trying to compete against big corporations like Microsoft and Google? They don’t.
You’re actually advocating for the big corporations, what’s going to happen if things go the way you want is the truly open models will die off and big corporations will completely control AI from then on. Is that what you really want?
Nothing like the thrill of being part of an angry mob! All the dopamine of righteous fury, none of the responsibility.
I doubt you would find them as a top result. Sure it would be somewhere in the results, but with the scale it can become an actual problem
Not as bad as the AI-generated articles showing up in search results. Some websites I get driven to make absolutely no sense, despite a lot of words being written about all kinds of topics.
I’m looking forward to the day when “certified human content” is a thing, and that’s all search engines allow you to see.
if you look up anything rooting or custom related, those sites seem to be half of what comes up
Yeah, a lot of repair sites come up with pages that have just hundreds of Q&A’s, but often times they don’t make sense or aren’t even related to the topic! Once you realize how much time was wasted on these garbage sites, you don’t even feel motivated to keep looking for answers.
They’ll just make certification so expensive only the wealthy will qualify.
You’ll never hear another perspective again.
Or, you know, we go back to the time when the news media had real gatekeepers and not just any random jackass could churn out some bullshit copy and broadcast it to the world, let alone have it get published by their local paper.
It’s nice that the Internet has democratized access to a national or even global audience, but let’s not pretend for a moment that it hasn’t caused a ton of problems in the process such that now many people have no idea of what to believe while others believe whatever they want.
The winning search engine will link to useful and relevant content, whether they are ai generated or not.
It’s more likely that the winning search engine will be the one that generates the most ad revenue via clicks.
Eventually all content will just be AI generated on the fly. No need to keep dumb content on precious storage that could be used to increase model size.
Eventually all comments will be AI-generated too, carefully crafted to ensure humans follow a paid narrative.
It’s still pretty easy to tell the difference. You have to have a pretty low level of media literacy to not be able to easily spot it. Unfortunately we already know that most people don’t have a clue when it comes to mass media, and even if they did, we also know that people tend to believe whatever reinforces their priors.
For now, just like it was easy to identify AI art by the fucked up hands for a few months before that was mostly ironed out. AI really doesn’t need to get that much “smarter” to start fooling people in their native tongue, it just needs to be able to string the right words together more often. And there’s a few billion guinea pigs out there to test on.
Well, of course. The search algorithm has no way to know the difference.
AI generated images often contain model and prompt metadata so in fact it could potentially tell the difference. Not that that should necessarily mean the image should be excluded.
Almost every image website deletes EXIF metadata.
Just wanted to point out that the Pinterest examples are conflating two distinct issues: low-quality results polluting our searches (in that they are visibly AI-generated) and images that are not “true” but very convincing,
The first one (search results quality) should theoretically be Google’s main job, except that they’ve never been great at it with images. Better quality results should get closer to the top as the algorithm and some manual editing do their job; crappy images (including bad AI ones) should move towards the bottom.
The latter issue (“reality” of the result) is the one I find more concerning. As AI-generated results get better and harder to tell from reality, how would we know that the search results for anything isn’t a convincing spoof just coughed up by an AI? But I’m not sure this is a search-engine or even an Internet-specific issue. The internet is clearly more efficient in spreading information quickly, but any video seen on TV or image quoted in a scientific article has to be viewed much more skeptically now.
Provenance. Track the origin.
Provenance. Track the origin.
Easy to say, often difficult to do.
There can be 2 major difficulties with tracking to origin.
- Time. It can take a good amount of time to find the true origin of something. And you don’t have the time to trace back to the true origin of everything you see and hear. So you will tend to choose the “source” you most agree with introducing bias to your “origin”.
- And the question of “Is the ‘origin’ I found the real source?” This is sometimes referred to Facts by Common Knowledge or the Wikipedia effect. And as AI gets better and better, original source material is going to become harder to access and harder to verify unless you can lay your hands on a real piece of paper that says it’s so.
So it appears at this point in time, there is no simple solution like “provenance” and " find the origin".
And as AI gets better and better, original source material is going to become harder to access and harder to verify unless you can lay your hands on a real piece of paper that says it’s so.
One of the bright lines between Existing Art and AI Art, particularly when it comes to historical photos and other images, is that there typically isn’t a physical copy of the original. You’re not going to walk into the Louvre and have this problem.
This brings up another complication in the art world, which is ownership/right-to-reproduce said image. Blindly crawling the internet and vacuuming up whatever you find, then labeling it as you find it, has been a great way for search engines to become functional repositories of intellectual property without being exposed to the costs associated with reprinting and reproducing. But all of this is happening in a kind-of digital gray marketplace. If you want the official copy of a particular artwork to host for your audience, that’s likely going to come with financial and legal strings attached, making its inclusion in a search result more complicated.
Since Google leadership doesn’t want to petition every single original art owner and private exhibition for the rights to use their workers in its search engine, they’re going to prefer to blindly collect shitty knock-offs and let the end-users figure this shit out (after all, you’re not paying them for these results and they’re not going to fork out money to someone else, so fuck you both). Then, maybe if the outcry is great enough, they can charge you as a premium service to get more authentic results. Or they can charge some third party to promote their print-copies and drive traffic.
But there’s no profit motive for artistic historical accuracy. So this work isn’t going to get done.
Humans will need to use digital signatures eventually. Chains of verifiable claims from real humans would be used. Still doesn’t prove anything by itself, but it saves a ton of effort. That, plus verifiable timestamping.
Seems like it will be a bigger issue for wikipedia and journalists than google.
Its time to start talking about “memetic effluent.” In the same way corporations polluted our physical world, they’re pollution our memetic world. AI spewing garbage data is just the most obvious way, but corporations have been toxifying our memetic space for generations.
This memetic effluent will make sorting through data harder and harder over the years. But the oil and tobacco industries undermined science and democracy for decades with it’s own memetic effluent in order to protect their business for decades. Advertising is it’s own effluent that distorts and destroys language. Jerry Rubin said it in 1970, “How can I tell you ‘I love you’ after hearing ‘cars love shell?’”
While physical effluent destroys our physical environment making living in the world harder, memetics effluent destroys meaning and makes thinking about and comprehending the world harder. Both are the garbage side effects of the perpetuation of capitalism.
This example of poisoning the data well is just too obvious to ignore, but there are so many others.
It’s interesting, because the idea is basically that knowledge and ideas should be constructive, so as not to pollute the sum of human knowledge.
So that raises the question, what is the constructive conclusion to “memetic effluent”? Without one, is the concept itself an example of such effluent?
It also raises the very thorny issue of who adjudicates what is and is not “memetic effluent.”
Yes, but the answer here is Google. Google is already making these calls, whether or not we get to discuss it.
“One man’s trash is another man’s treasure,” as the saying goes.
I don’t think that’s the implication here. Following the metaphor, pottery and arrow points have been waste products for a while. Prior to the industrial revolution, and specifically prior to the chemical revolution, industrial waste streams haven’t been as major of a problem (ignoring cholera for a bit). It’s been the development of selling chemicals for profit and the extensive use of petroleum that’s really caused massive problems threatening humanity as a whole.
The implication then is that people should be responsible for their memes. Corporations are inherently irresponsible because there exit economic incentives to externalize costs, be that environmental or informational. AI garbage as a waste stream would be fine if the data was clearly labeled as such. Unfortunately at least some AI garbage is intended to be deceptive. There exists an economic incentives to produce AI garbage that is hard to distinguish from human output. Since AI garbage can be produced at an industrial scale, there’s a massive waste data stream that’s able to overload the systems we’ve built to parse and organize data.
There are probably a lot more implications here, but “what are we doing with our information world” is something worth thinking about before we make it completely unusable.
This feels like the precursor to the information Apocalypse referenced in the comic Transmetropolitan.
Thank you for circling the largest photo, my eyes didn’t know where to go #bless 🙏
Internet was already unreliable source of information (for some stuff) without AI, just wait
AI generation sites about to become Pinterest 2.0 for clogging up search results.
I hate so much how pinterest occludes and pollutes google images 🙄
the internet is really going to need some kind of centralized hash signature authority
This isn’t new, I’ve seen ai in the Google images results for months now, close to a year.
Have been for a while. Pretty annoying and I wish you could filter them out.
The Google AI that pre-loads the results query isn’t able to distinguish real photos from fake AI generated photos. So there’s no way to filter out all the trash, because we’ve made generative AI just good enough to snooker search AI.
A lot of them mention they’re using an AI art generator in the description. Even only filtering out self-reported ones would be useful.
That still requires a uniform method of tagging art as such. Which is absolutely a thing that could be done, but there’s no upside to the effort. If your images all get tagged “AI” and another generator’s doesn’t, what benefit is that to you? That’s before we even get into what digital standard gets used in the tagging. Do we assign this to the image itself (making it more reliable but also more difficult to implement)? As structured metadata (making it easier to apply, but also easier to spoof or scrape off)? Or is Google just expected to parse this information from a kaleidoscope of generating and hosting standards?
Times like this, it would be helpful for - say - the FCC or ICANN to get involved. But that would be Big Government Overreach, so it ain’t going to happen.
Reality:
Reality is overrated.
rip google search results
Why would they not? There’s no way for such a system to know it’s AI generated unless there’s some metadata that makes it obvious. And even if it was, who’s to say the user wouldn’t want to see them in the results?
This is a nothing issue. It’s not like this is being generated in response to a search, it’s something that already existed being returned as a result because there is assembly something that links it to the search.
To put it bluntly: this is kind of like complaining a pencil drawing on a napkin showed up in the results.
There’s no way for such a system to know it’s AI generated unless there’s some metadata that makes it obvious.
I agree with your comment but just want to point out that AI-generated images actually often do contain metadata, usually describing the model and prompt used.
By the time a user has shared them, 99% of the time all superfluous metadata has been stripped, for better or worse.
That’s fine for looking up cat pictures or porn, but many people are searching for information contained in images, and that is a problem. What if you were looking for a graph, a map, a blueprint, etc.? How do you discern the real from the fake? What if you click through and the image seems to come from a legit source that is also generated?
You’re missing the point: How would a search engine discern the real from the fake?
Something posted on the internet is available by searching on google! The world is ending!