I see this way too often here on Lemmy, so I want to post this. Starting a commune is legal in most countries. If you believe in communism, you can found a commune and show us all how great it is.

You lack money? Well, that is literally what stock markets and venture capitalists (capitalism) are created to solve. If you are ready for an IPO, you can sell shares to raise funds. If you are not, you can get Venture Capital in exchange for shares until you are ready for an IPO.

Getting rid of capitalism means you need to find a different way to obtain funding for new ventures. And if your system relies on government charity (some government board handing you money) or taking resources violently, than your system sucks.

Edit: I don’t mean that this is a replacement for full communist system. I mean this as a way to get some of the advantages while showing sceptics (like me) it can work and is better. A first step.

  • redempt@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    as always, this boils down to mistrust of your fellow man. capitalism makes us more selfish, it rewards greed, that is what it incentivizes and so of course people act greedier. people want to help each other, they want to make the world a better place to live, and nobody should be forced to work how someone else says they should with no say in it. without competition, people have to pick up the slack with altruism and actual passion and care. if we reward collaboration, if we incentivize kindness and caring and actual benefit, those are the things we will see more of. as it stands, we subsidize everything that is killing us.

    the goal of an economy is not to produce endlessly, as much as possible. capitalism is extremely growth oriented. that’s about all it’s good for: rapid growth, at the expense of equity and workers’ autonomy. we no longer need this growth and competition; we need to downscale and produce less. the goal of an economy should be to provide what people need, as seamlessly as possible.

    everything you’re saying speaks to a lack of understanding of the world around us. I think you can describe this “ideal” form of capitalism, but it’s nothing like what we actually see in the real world. companies are extremely exploitative, they do ignore or lobby against regulations as much as possible, they exploit workers as much as they can get away with.

    the fundamental problem is that ethics are not profitable. ethics are a luxury, and you can always find a way to cut costs if you’re willing to be unethical. an economy is not a machine to squeeze optimum efficiency out of, it is made of people with thoughts and feelings and ambitions, and all of its externalities come back to these same people.

    if we want to have an ethical society, ruthless pursuit of efficiency is about the worst possible way to get there, but it is the ultimate goal of capitalism. this efficiency is not for us, though; it is efficiency of accruing as much wealth (and thereby power) as possible.

    I don’t believe any strict power hierarchy (like the employer-employee relationship or the parent-child relationship) can ever be fully ethical. we may sometimes deem them necessary, but I think we really need to think twice about making someone subject to another person’s will. workers in a corporation have no say at all in how their workplace is run, what their duties are, or how they carry them out. for eight or more hours per day, people do not control their own decisions, and I think this is the most egregious effect of capitalism.

    this is again going to come down to lack of faith in human nature. I believe that people are fundamentally good, that they care about the world around them and want to improve it for themselves and the people they love. they can sometimes be selfish, but they are far more giving than we ever give them credit for. there is immense trauma throughout the world from war and abuse, but there is even greater capacity for kindness. it’s easy to believe that people are fundamentally cruel when the world around us is cruel, but the average person has no say in how it operates; this system of incentives rewards whoever is most willing to act immorally to undercut their competitors, essentially guaranteeing that the least ethical individuals end up in charge of everything. you can see this in the leadership of virtually every major corporation.

    I believe the average person is far more hardworking, caring, loving, and kind than the people who run our economy, and if all of us collaborated and organized together, we could be far more efficient and beneficial to one another than our current system allows. the more we do this, the easier it becomes to be kind. after all, we know that the leading causes of crime and abuse are all situational. we will need unprecedented solidarity, and only by uplifting everyone out of poverty can we get there.

    • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.worldOP
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      6 months ago

      the goal of an economy is not to produce endlessly, as much as possible. capitalism is extremely growth oriented. that’s about all it’s good for: rapid growth, at the expense of equity and workers’ autonomy. we no longer need this growth and competition; we need to downscale and produce less. the goal of an economy should be to provide what people need, as seamlessly as possible.

      The current GDP per capita is about $1,050 a month. That is before taxes, capital investment and amortization. If you believe we don’t need growth, that is what you should strive to live off of since that is your fair share.

      as always, this boils down to mistrust of your fellow man

      For a good reason:

      https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/trans-adults-florida-blindsided-new-law-also-limits-access-health-care-rcna87723

      https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/23/doctors-abortion-medical-exemptions-00153317

      https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-attack-military-war-a8f63b07641212f0de61861844e5e71e

      https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/25/world/middleeast/iran-rapper-toomaj-salehi-death-sentence.html

      None of the above are related to Greed. Just needless cruelty.

      this system of incentives rewards whoever is most willing to act immorally to undercut their competitors, essentially guaranteeing that the least ethical individuals end up in charge of everything.

      This happens in any political system: https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

      So tell me. Will you donate everything you earn above $1,050 to charity since it is above your fair share? If not, clearly people can’t be trusted to just cooperate fairly of their own free will.

      • redempt@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        now you’re just putting words in my mouth. when did I ever say everyone has to give everything they have over “the average” away? it’s true we should strive for more equality, and I would be happy to pay a larger share to taxes for the public good rather than warfare, but you’re really not making good faith arguments anymore.

        if your faith in humanity is determined entirely by the people in charge, then you’re going to have no faith at all. so you’ve missed my point. these are not carried out by “the average person”. democracy can lead to less cruelty. it is not perfect, but it also helps if the population is not heavily propagandized and is well educated.

        I’m going to stop replying after this because I feel that you’re not addressing the points I’m making anymore.

        • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.worldOP
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          6 months ago

          You are literally saying we don’t need bosses to tell us what to do and don’t need competition. That we can cooperate in good faith. Yet you think taking more than your fair share is not an issue for such a system?

          You are either delusional or you are trolling.

          Taking more than your fair share (average) is by definition competing.

          Also, I specifically picked events that are not mainly driven by the leaders but by the populace.