Why use FSD though if you would still need to pay attention and be ready to take over the car? I understand cruise control to a degree but the other stuff I dont see how its helpful to rely on a computer that can malfunction at any moment.
Finally an actual intelligent question that isn’t just ‘fuck Tesla’.
FSD has gotten very very good. On the highway, it is a better driver than I am. I have had my car for a few years, I have driven many hundreds of hours on FSD, and it has only really tried to do something stupid twice, both of them some time ago on much older software. I don’t even have the most recent software because my car is computer is generation 3, I’m running the last one that was available for HW3 (version 12) but I have a lot of time on it so I am quite familiar with what it can and cannot do.
As such, I gain trust by experience, by watching it perform. So I know which situations I can trust it to do the right thing, and which situations I cannot.
That means in one of the situations where I trust it, such as on the highway, I can turn it on and leave it the task of staying in lane and maintaining speed. I can focus my attention then on maintaining overall situational awareness of the world around the car. Even if I am doing something else like eating a sandwich, which would otherwise distract my attention and make me a less safe driver, I feel the result is overall more safe because the computer is watching 360° around the car and I am maintaining situational awareness of what I can see. I believe this creates the most safe situation.
Using highway driving like that, there have been a couple situations where the car reacted to something that I hadn’t even seen yet and potentially avoided an accident. For example, there was one situation where a very reckless driver was coming up from behind in the right lane and merging into our lane. I didn’t see it because I was looking forward, Tesla did because the cameras are looking everywhere. Tesla’s reaction was to slow down and change lanes away from the guy, which was the correct response. The car started reacting before I was even aware of the threat, and because the car had already cleared the space it was changing lanes into, it was able to start that lane change faster than I could because I would have looked over the shoulder first…
There have also been a few situations where I reacted to something the car was not reacting to yet and while it would not have resulted in an accident, it did increase safety by my intervention. Basic example is I am in the far right lane, there is an entry exit lane to the right which is ending and I know it is ending but the car doesn’t necessarily. I know the car slightly ahead and to the right of me is going to have to merge into my lane, so I manually slow down the car to give him a space to come in whereas Tesla would have just maintained speed and he would have had to slow down and go behind me.
I would strongly encourage you to disregard a lot of The crap you read in the news and online, much of it written by people who intrinsically hate Elon and anything he has ever touched, and go test drive the car. I’m not saying go buy the car, I’m saying go have the experience of actually using FSD so you can see first hand exactly what it is like.
I simply dont see a benefit to the technology in my own life. I’m willing to hear others give their experience though. I think for me, whether its a better driver or not is secondary to accountability. I’m accountable for my mistakes, whereas a co pany like tesla has many many reasons why they should avoid accountability.
If FSD were a state or federal government initiative with the goal of improving society, I think that would go a long way. At least something like that.
All these L2 systems (not just Tesla’s) really do lower the cognitive load and makes things easier, even if you still have to pay attention.
Remember when you were learning to drive and making sure you did everything right took up a lot of your cognitive ability while driving, maybe you couldn’t even carry on a conversation and drive, and as you got more experienced, a lot of it became second nature, and the load on driving became less?
Well that load is still there, it’s just less, and this can lower it further even if you are still having to pay attention.
I’m saying the problem is that it lowers the mental load, which lowers reaction timing. You might be able to counter that by paying attention as much with FSD as without, but then you are gaining nothing but extra risk.
Is there a reason you want to reduce the mental load as much as possible? If I were driving 4+hours per day its possible I might be more likely to agree with you but thats just a guess.
When you say it helps, is this just in general mental well being from less stress from driving? Is it purely convenience? I personally dont find driving to be stressful in my life but again I dont have a long commute.
I do drive a manual in rush hour periodically, I dont see how FSD helps there though? I’d still need to be ready to hit the brake if the car malfunctions wouldnt I?
Ya, mental well being and less stress sounds about right. Going for a couple hour drive and using it for even a part of it can leave me feeling better off when I get to my destination.
It’s not something I always turn on for entire trips either, I still do a mix of both, but lets say I’m on a 2hour trip and I’ve been driving regularly for 30 minutes and I’m starting to feel it, I can turn it on and there’s just this instant noticeable reduction, but then maybe there’s some construction or something ahead where I want to take over, so I take over and then drive the next 30 minutes myself again.
The best analogy is probably just regular cruise control if you’ve ever used it. You still gotta pay attention and be ready to alter your speed, but you’re not suddenly forgetting about speed while it’s on, but you’re also not getting worn down by having to maintain it manually.
For example - Feeling frustrated or annoyed by that car in front of you that’s constantly slowing down so you always have to be modulating your speed, but you can’t necessarily pass? Well it can just follow it and modulate it for you, well I can assure you, it’s less annoying when you don’t have to manage that yourself.
You always need to be ready to brake or press the accelerator depending on the situation, and I move my foot around depending on the situation. Just driving on the open highway, I’ll be ready for the accelerator in case of any phantom braking, coming up to a light with another vehicle in front of me, I’ll move it to the brake until it’s clear the car is braking at my comfort level. It’s all situational, and if you’re paying attention like you’re supposed to be, it’ll just be natural on which one you are prepared for.
Stop and go traffic it’s just making sure it does actually stop as it inches forward a few feet and needs to come to a stop again but without needing to actually manage it myself.
Recently read a book on the Nudge effect and it mentioned it taking upwards of 40 seconds for a human to re-establish control of an automated vehicle. Is not having to worry about traffic and your place in it when using “automated” driving part of the appeal? I guess not breaking the law isn’t quite decadent enough for Tesla owners.
As the parent commenter who actually drives the Tesla, this is absolute bullshit. It does not take me any 40 seconds to reestablish control. FSD is not push the button and take a nap. If it was, it might take me 40 seconds to wake up, take a sip of coffee, stretch and yawn, tilt my chair back up, and then look around the car. But that is not the case.
FSD requires driver attention to the road. Even if the computer is driving, I am still paying attention to what is going on and if anything maintaining a higher level of situational awareness because I can spread my attention around the car without having to focus on staying in the lane. If I want to take over I literally just do it, apply any control input and I’m back in control. Turn the wheel, hit the gas, hit the brake, the car responds immediately.
Driving on residential streets I will often go in and out of FSD frequently, the version I have is not as good with complex intersections and knowing when it is our turn for example. So I’ll let it drive along and stay in the lane, then when we get to the intersection I’ll take over, then when we get to the other side I’ll go back on FSD. There is no 40 second delay anywhere.
I would strongly encourage you to go test drive the car. I’m not saying buy one, I’m saying just so that you can understand what exactly the system does and does not do. Don’t take that knowledge from what you read online, much of it written by people with an agenda either pro-Tesla or anti-Tesla. Go experience it for yourself and decide for yourself based on first hand knowledge If it’s a dangerous piece of shit or a useful tool.
Maybe it has changed since the last time I tried on a rental (about a year ago), but it felt too gimmicky to be useful. It constantly wanted me to jerk the wheel, and would randomly turn itself off otherwise. Despite the fact I still had both my hands on the wheel, and the camera sensor should have noticed I was constantly looking at the road.
And then the few times it stayed active for a longer period, I was even more bored than usual with driving, and I didn’t feel much safer. Especially with country roads, it was constantly doing the speed limit instead of slightly slowing down in the few areas without fences (wildlife running into the road), and it was also happy to drive through a long and deep visible pool of water on the highway at like 110km/hr.
It’d be different if Tesla had LiDAR, but nah, it’s not for me. I’m glad you like it though.
Lidar wouldn’t have solved any of the issues you described. It also doesn’t solve the issues waymo frequenly has, where you’d say wtf didn’t lidar stop that? People are putting too much faith on lidar being a magic bullet. All these l2/AVs still need much better capabilities to process visual queues that lidar won’t help with.
Like a waymo literally drove into a telephone pole, WITH lidar. They all need better brains.
For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then moving at highway speeds? I don’t think 40 seconds is a stretch at all.
Also, the smug self-assurance of a Tesla owner does little more than reveal just why people feel the way they do about this kind of person. So certain in the technology and other Tesla owners that concerns over the bicycle rider or the pedestrian become little more than background noise.
I think there’s a distinction to make between driver assistance technologies and how drivers become reliant on automation. Because otherwise, should we not have automatic transmission, either?
Why use FSD though if you would still need to pay attention and be ready to take over the car? I understand cruise control to a degree but the other stuff I dont see how its helpful to rely on a computer that can malfunction at any moment.
Finally an actual intelligent question that isn’t just ‘fuck Tesla’.
FSD has gotten very very good. On the highway, it is a better driver than I am. I have had my car for a few years, I have driven many hundreds of hours on FSD, and it has only really tried to do something stupid twice, both of them some time ago on much older software. I don’t even have the most recent software because my car is computer is generation 3, I’m running the last one that was available for HW3 (version 12) but I have a lot of time on it so I am quite familiar with what it can and cannot do.
As such, I gain trust by experience, by watching it perform. So I know which situations I can trust it to do the right thing, and which situations I cannot.
That means in one of the situations where I trust it, such as on the highway, I can turn it on and leave it the task of staying in lane and maintaining speed. I can focus my attention then on maintaining overall situational awareness of the world around the car. Even if I am doing something else like eating a sandwich, which would otherwise distract my attention and make me a less safe driver, I feel the result is overall more safe because the computer is watching 360° around the car and I am maintaining situational awareness of what I can see. I believe this creates the most safe situation.
Using highway driving like that, there have been a couple situations where the car reacted to something that I hadn’t even seen yet and potentially avoided an accident. For example, there was one situation where a very reckless driver was coming up from behind in the right lane and merging into our lane. I didn’t see it because I was looking forward, Tesla did because the cameras are looking everywhere. Tesla’s reaction was to slow down and change lanes away from the guy, which was the correct response. The car started reacting before I was even aware of the threat, and because the car had already cleared the space it was changing lanes into, it was able to start that lane change faster than I could because I would have looked over the shoulder first…
There have also been a few situations where I reacted to something the car was not reacting to yet and while it would not have resulted in an accident, it did increase safety by my intervention. Basic example is I am in the far right lane, there is an entry exit lane to the right which is ending and I know it is ending but the car doesn’t necessarily. I know the car slightly ahead and to the right of me is going to have to merge into my lane, so I manually slow down the car to give him a space to come in whereas Tesla would have just maintained speed and he would have had to slow down and go behind me.
I would strongly encourage you to disregard a lot of The crap you read in the news and online, much of it written by people who intrinsically hate Elon and anything he has ever touched, and go test drive the car. I’m not saying go buy the car, I’m saying go have the experience of actually using FSD so you can see first hand exactly what it is like.
I simply dont see a benefit to the technology in my own life. I’m willing to hear others give their experience though. I think for me, whether its a better driver or not is secondary to accountability. I’m accountable for my mistakes, whereas a co pany like tesla has many many reasons why they should avoid accountability.
If FSD were a state or federal government initiative with the goal of improving society, I think that would go a long way. At least something like that.
All these L2 systems (not just Tesla’s) really do lower the cognitive load and makes things easier, even if you still have to pay attention.
Remember when you were learning to drive and making sure you did everything right took up a lot of your cognitive ability while driving, maybe you couldn’t even carry on a conversation and drive, and as you got more experienced, a lot of it became second nature, and the load on driving became less?
Well that load is still there, it’s just less, and this can lower it further even if you are still having to pay attention.
I’m saying the problem is that it lowers the mental load, which lowers reaction timing. You might be able to counter that by paying attention as much with FSD as without, but then you are gaining nothing but extra risk.
Is there a reason you want to reduce the mental load as much as possible? If I were driving 4+hours per day its possible I might be more likely to agree with you but thats just a guess.
Lowering the mental load of having to maintain speed and lane does not mean you’re not paying attention and able to take over.
It means you have more time to be aware of what’s going on around you, while still paying attention to what it’s handling for you.
Saying you gain nothing but risk because you still pay attention just isn’t true. There is still a gain, even with any added risk.
Stop and go traffic, and long drives it really helps.
When you say it helps, is this just in general mental well being from less stress from driving? Is it purely convenience? I personally dont find driving to be stressful in my life but again I dont have a long commute.
I do drive a manual in rush hour periodically, I dont see how FSD helps there though? I’d still need to be ready to hit the brake if the car malfunctions wouldnt I?
Ya, mental well being and less stress sounds about right. Going for a couple hour drive and using it for even a part of it can leave me feeling better off when I get to my destination.
It’s not something I always turn on for entire trips either, I still do a mix of both, but lets say I’m on a 2hour trip and I’ve been driving regularly for 30 minutes and I’m starting to feel it, I can turn it on and there’s just this instant noticeable reduction, but then maybe there’s some construction or something ahead where I want to take over, so I take over and then drive the next 30 minutes myself again.
The best analogy is probably just regular cruise control if you’ve ever used it. You still gotta pay attention and be ready to alter your speed, but you’re not suddenly forgetting about speed while it’s on, but you’re also not getting worn down by having to maintain it manually.
For example - Feeling frustrated or annoyed by that car in front of you that’s constantly slowing down so you always have to be modulating your speed, but you can’t necessarily pass? Well it can just follow it and modulate it for you, well I can assure you, it’s less annoying when you don’t have to manage that yourself.
You always need to be ready to brake or press the accelerator depending on the situation, and I move my foot around depending on the situation. Just driving on the open highway, I’ll be ready for the accelerator in case of any phantom braking, coming up to a light with another vehicle in front of me, I’ll move it to the brake until it’s clear the car is braking at my comfort level. It’s all situational, and if you’re paying attention like you’re supposed to be, it’ll just be natural on which one you are prepared for.
Stop and go traffic it’s just making sure it does actually stop as it inches forward a few feet and needs to come to a stop again but without needing to actually manage it myself.
so ppl can get even more reliant on technology and would be downright dangerous behind the wheel of an older vehicle? awesome…
Recently read a book on the Nudge effect and it mentioned it taking upwards of 40 seconds for a human to re-establish control of an automated vehicle. Is not having to worry about traffic and your place in it when using “automated” driving part of the appeal? I guess not breaking the law isn’t quite decadent enough for Tesla owners.
As the parent commenter who actually drives the Tesla, this is absolute bullshit. It does not take me any 40 seconds to reestablish control. FSD is not push the button and take a nap. If it was, it might take me 40 seconds to wake up, take a sip of coffee, stretch and yawn, tilt my chair back up, and then look around the car. But that is not the case.
FSD requires driver attention to the road. Even if the computer is driving, I am still paying attention to what is going on and if anything maintaining a higher level of situational awareness because I can spread my attention around the car without having to focus on staying in the lane. If I want to take over I literally just do it, apply any control input and I’m back in control. Turn the wheel, hit the gas, hit the brake, the car responds immediately.
Driving on residential streets I will often go in and out of FSD frequently, the version I have is not as good with complex intersections and knowing when it is our turn for example. So I’ll let it drive along and stay in the lane, then when we get to the intersection I’ll take over, then when we get to the other side I’ll go back on FSD. There is no 40 second delay anywhere.
I would strongly encourage you to go test drive the car. I’m not saying buy one, I’m saying just so that you can understand what exactly the system does and does not do. Don’t take that knowledge from what you read online, much of it written by people with an agenda either pro-Tesla or anti-Tesla. Go experience it for yourself and decide for yourself based on first hand knowledge If it’s a dangerous piece of shit or a useful tool.
Maybe it has changed since the last time I tried on a rental (about a year ago), but it felt too gimmicky to be useful. It constantly wanted me to jerk the wheel, and would randomly turn itself off otherwise. Despite the fact I still had both my hands on the wheel, and the camera sensor should have noticed I was constantly looking at the road.
And then the few times it stayed active for a longer period, I was even more bored than usual with driving, and I didn’t feel much safer. Especially with country roads, it was constantly doing the speed limit instead of slightly slowing down in the few areas without fences (wildlife running into the road), and it was also happy to drive through a long and deep visible pool of water on the highway at like 110km/hr.
It’d be different if Tesla had LiDAR, but nah, it’s not for me. I’m glad you like it though.
Lidar wouldn’t have solved any of the issues you described. It also doesn’t solve the issues waymo frequenly has, where you’d say wtf didn’t lidar stop that? People are putting too much faith on lidar being a magic bullet. All these l2/AVs still need much better capabilities to process visual queues that lidar won’t help with.
Like a waymo literally drove into a telephone pole, WITH lidar. They all need better brains.
For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then moving at highway speeds? I don’t think 40 seconds is a stretch at all.
Also, the smug self-assurance of a Tesla owner does little more than reveal just why people feel the way they do about this kind of person. So certain in the technology and other Tesla owners that concerns over the bicycle rider or the pedestrian become little more than background noise.
You really have no idea what your talking about thinking it takes 40s.
Parent comment described it accurately.
I think there’s a distinction to make between driver assistance technologies and how drivers become reliant on automation. Because otherwise, should we not have automatic transmission, either?