It’s not a pronoun, so if one is pretending to talk about linguistics authoritatively one should know that and clearly state it to your audience so that they’re not misled into thinking that calling it a fourth-person pronoun is in any way reasonable.
I’ve rewatched the video in case I was being uncharitable. Nope. He accepts the premise (direct quote: “that’s kind of true”). He then does the exact thing I said, which is argue that it’s not acting like a normal pronoun: “the ‘fourth person’ can also refer to a generic pronoun […] it doesn’t refer to a specific referent, like ‘he’ or ‘she’. […] if ‘chat’ is being used to refer to nobody in particular, then arguably it is a new fourth person pronoun.” This is complete and utter nonsense packaged as exciting linguistic concepts, which is not at all “cool and good.”
(As a bonus bit of wrongness that I didn’t catch on the first watch: he says that chat used like “y’all” is third person plural, which is another thing that maybe you shouldn’t get wrong in a supposedly educational video.)
well i mean you are being uncharitable. This is a tiktok, not, like, a paper. “Kind of true” doesn’t mean “absolutely true in all cases across space, time, and other universes”. Yes, he did misidentify “y’all” (it is second person plural) but that just changes what the statement should have meant to “chat is used as a second person plural pronoun”.
I think this analysis is about the usage of “chat is this true/real” outside of streams. Like if someone said out loud “chat is this true” to nobody in particular. Or in like, a meme or something.
No, don’t be silly. “Chat, is this true?” does not start with a pronoun. Here “chat” is a noun, just like the nouns in “Peter, is this true?” or “Dude, is this true?” or “Friends, Romans, countrymen; is this true?” or “Ladies and gentlemen, The Weeknd.”
Addressing someone does not require them to be present or real, so the presence or absence of a literal chat does not somehow transmogrify this noun into a pronoun.
“Friends, Romans, countrymen; is this true?” or “Ladies and gentlemen, The Weeknd.”
if you used “y’all” to refer to the groups in these examples, “y’all” is a pronoun.
Addressing someone does not require them to be present or real, so the presence or absence of a literal chat does not somehow transmogrify this noun into a pronoun.
Chat is a metonym (not a pronoun) when you are referring to a group of people in a chatroom, real or imagined. That’s part of the new usage. What’s also part of the new usage is using “chat” but you aren’t thinking about the people you are addressing as part of a chatroom.
Plus we gotta examine the underlying context of how this usage started and how it has evolved. So it starts not as a pronoun when streamers start using it. Then it mutates as people start saying it in real life, outside of a streaming or chatroom context. So let’s say a young child hears someone say “chat, is this true”, and, without looking up what this means or the context, just starts saying it, without knowing what a chatroom is or without a specific audience in mind. I think at that point it becomes a pronoun.
Anyway, none of this is anything to get heated about.
Well, I guess you’ve chosen the path of not knowing what a pronoun is, since all of the examples you’ve given use chat as a noun. Good luck with that; I don’t think we can have a productive conversation without shared meanings of words, so I’ll bow out.
No one’s getting particularly heated, we’re just saying that someone who spews obvious nonsense in an area of supposed expertise probably shouldn’t be trusted about other things.
Well chat, since this guy has bowed out, let me just say: I’ve been working with this description, per wikipedia:
In linguistics and grammar, a pronoun is a word or a group of words that one may substitute for a noun or noun phrase.
Yeah obviously chat is going to appear as a noun in all those sentences, because it is functioning as a noun. It is sometimes a pronoun. You could just swap out “chat” in any of my guy’s statements with any pronoun and hey now there are no pronouns. We’re free!
And uh yeah flowery is clearly erupting. Just absolutely malding over some tiktoker because he said some stuff and flowery didn’t like the tone of his voice. Mad cos he’s stylin on you
It’s not a pronoun, so if one is pretending to talk about linguistics authoritatively one should know that and clearly state it to your audience so that they’re not misled into thinking that calling it a fourth-person pronoun is in any way reasonable.
Uh, in its contemporary usage in “chat is this true,” it absolutely is a pronoun
I’ve rewatched the video in case I was being uncharitable. Nope. He accepts the premise (direct quote: “that’s kind of true”). He then does the exact thing I said, which is argue that it’s not acting like a normal pronoun: “the ‘fourth person’ can also refer to a generic pronoun […] it doesn’t refer to a specific referent, like ‘he’ or ‘she’. […] if ‘chat’ is being used to refer to nobody in particular, then arguably it is a new fourth person pronoun.” This is complete and utter nonsense packaged as exciting linguistic concepts, which is not at all “cool and good.”
(As a bonus bit of wrongness that I didn’t catch on the first watch: he says that chat used like “y’all” is third person plural, which is another thing that maybe you shouldn’t get wrong in a supposedly educational video.)
well i mean you are being uncharitable. This is a tiktok, not, like, a paper. “Kind of true” doesn’t mean “absolutely true in all cases across space, time, and other universes”. Yes, he did misidentify “y’all” (it is second person plural) but that just changes what the statement should have meant to “chat is used as a second person plural pronoun”.
I think this analysis is about the usage of “chat is this true/real” outside of streams. Like if someone said out loud “chat is this true” to nobody in particular. Or in like, a meme or something.
No, don’t be silly. “Chat, is this true?” does not start with a pronoun. Here “chat” is a noun, just like the nouns in “Peter, is this true?” or “Dude, is this true?” or “Friends, Romans, countrymen; is this true?” or “Ladies and gentlemen, The Weeknd.”
Addressing someone does not require them to be present or real, so the presence or absence of a literal chat does not somehow transmogrify this noun into a pronoun.
if you used “y’all” to refer to the groups in these examples, “y’all” is a pronoun.
Chat is a metonym (not a pronoun) when you are referring to a group of people in a chatroom, real or imagined. That’s part of the new usage. What’s also part of the new usage is using “chat” but you aren’t thinking about the people you are addressing as part of a chatroom.
Plus we gotta examine the underlying context of how this usage started and how it has evolved. So it starts not as a pronoun when streamers start using it. Then it mutates as people start saying it in real life, outside of a streaming or chatroom context. So let’s say a young child hears someone say “chat, is this true”, and, without looking up what this means or the context, just starts saying it, without knowing what a chatroom is or without a specific audience in mind. I think at that point it becomes a pronoun.
Anyway, none of this is anything to get heated about.
Well, I guess you’ve chosen the path of not knowing what a pronoun is, since all of the examples you’ve given use chat as a noun. Good luck with that; I don’t think we can have a productive conversation without shared meanings of words, so I’ll bow out.
No one’s getting particularly heated, we’re just saying that someone who spews obvious nonsense in an area of supposed expertise probably shouldn’t be trusted about other things.
Well chat, since this guy has bowed out, let me just say: I’ve been working with this description, per wikipedia:
Yeah obviously chat is going to appear as a noun in all those sentences, because it is functioning as a noun. It is sometimes a pronoun. You could just swap out “chat” in any of my guy’s statements with any pronoun and hey now there are no pronouns. We’re free!
And uh yeah flowery is clearly erupting. Just absolutely malding over some tiktoker because he said some stuff and flowery didn’t like the tone of his voice. Mad cos he’s stylin on you