Isn’t it more that people who are given a test will tend to think that the test was easy when they score well (when they actually scored well because they’re an expert) and people will think a test is hard when they aren’t familiar with the subject (nobody could’ve answered these question!) .
So it’s more that experts and non-experts both assume their knowledge level is more average than it actually is. Not as fun as “dummies think they’re smart and smarties think they’re dumb.” We all just tend to think we’re average and most people are at a similar level of expertise to ourselves.
I think the “dumbies” and “smarties” part comes to play when people decide or not to open their big fat mouths and share their “great knowledge” in a domain they have barelly learned about, especially when they’re dismissing expert opinions with their “great knowledge”.
So whilst being in that very special point of the Dunning-Krugger Effect isn’t really a metric of smarts (we’re all there in at least a few domains), the likelihood of actually dismissing the opinion of domain experts when one’s knowledge in that expert domain is at that point of the curve, is probably positvelly correlate with dumbness.
Your point is about causes, my point is about expression and is actually wider than just the Dunning-Krugger effect.
You’re saying that having the effect is independent of intelligence, I’m saying that the frequency and form of people expressing themselves when they’re under the influence of that effect at the peak of the curve is shaped by their intelligence, not specifically because of that effect but because their broader behavioral pattern when it comes willingness to voice their opinions or advices or even the way they voice opinion or knowledge of which they aren’t sure of, is to voice it as a certain fact (“It is so”) rather than opinion (“I think that”, “I heard that”).
For example, my impression from observation is that people prone to Mansplaining are also broadly more likely to offer opinions and advice as a “sure thing” in subjects they are not expert in and to voice that a as a certainty rather that a possibility, which also includes the Dunning-Krugger effect situations.
Our points are actually complementary, IMHO.
Also, curiously, both of us didn’t put forward our points as certainty, you starting your post with “Isn’t it more that” and me starting mine with “I think”.
I’m surprised your take was that I was dismissing your interpretation of the Dunning-Krugger based on specific expertise on the subject given that I very purposefully tried to express my opinion in a way that avoided passing it as an expert opinion, much less fact.
Isn’t it more that people who are given a test will tend to think that the test was easy when they score well (when they actually scored well because they’re an expert) and people will think a test is hard when they aren’t familiar with the subject (nobody could’ve answered these question!) .
So it’s more that experts and non-experts both assume their knowledge level is more average than it actually is. Not as fun as “dummies think they’re smart and smarties think they’re dumb.” We all just tend to think we’re average and most people are at a similar level of expertise to ourselves.
I think the “dumbies” and “smarties” part comes to play when people decide or not to open their big fat mouths and share their “great knowledge” in a domain they have barelly learned about, especially when they’re dismissing expert opinions with their “great knowledge”.
So whilst being in that very special point of the Dunning-Krugger Effect isn’t really a metric of smarts (we’re all there in at least a few domains), the likelihood of actually dismissing the opinion of domain experts when one’s knowledge in that expert domain is at that point of the curve, is probably positvelly correlate with dumbness.
Are you dismissing my interpretation of the Dunning-Krugger effect based on specific expertise on the subject?
Your point is about causes, my point is about expression and is actually wider than just the Dunning-Krugger effect.
You’re saying that having the effect is independent of intelligence, I’m saying that the frequency and form of people expressing themselves when they’re under the influence of that effect at the peak of the curve is shaped by their intelligence, not specifically because of that effect but because their broader behavioral pattern when it comes willingness to voice their opinions or advices or even the way they voice opinion or knowledge of which they aren’t sure of, is to voice it as a certain fact (“It is so”) rather than opinion (“I think that”, “I heard that”).
For example, my impression from observation is that people prone to Mansplaining are also broadly more likely to offer opinions and advice as a “sure thing” in subjects they are not expert in and to voice that a as a certainty rather that a possibility, which also includes the Dunning-Krugger effect situations.
Our points are actually complementary, IMHO.
Also, curiously, both of us didn’t put forward our points as certainty, you starting your post with “Isn’t it more that” and me starting mine with “I think”.
I’m surprised your take was that I was dismissing your interpretation of the Dunning-Krugger based on specific expertise on the subject given that I very purposefully tried to express my opinion in a way that avoided passing it as an expert opinion, much less fact.