“Souls-like” games - memorise attack patterns, the game. Not hard, just tedious.
Are people memorizing attack patterns? This one comes up a lot and I don’t really get it. The boss does a thing and I react, which is how most real time combat games are, I think?
I guess something like Skyrim you mostly just stand there and trade blows.
Yes, that’s how you’re reacting to the boss or any other enemies in games. You know that they do attack x, y, and z and then are vulnerable for 2 seconds, or which moves are parry-able to stun them, etc. Enemies in games have set move lists, and they have pre-set patterns and weak points etc.
For example when you see a skeleton you know exactly which moves and attacks patterns it has, and when to block/parry/strike to defeat them.
Memorizing attack patterns IS how you’re reacting though. How many of the bosses can you walk in and just wipe the floor with on the first try? You learn that a pull back to the right means you need to dodge left, now; a dash to the right means waiting two seconds, jumping, then dodging towards them; etc., etc.
I know for certain that when I go replay elden ring the only reason I can clear the tree sentinel as soon as I leave the cave is because I know just how to react to the boss’ “thing.”
How many of the bosses can you walk in and just wipe the floor with on the first try
A pretty good amount, though that’s confounded by playing lots of similar games over the years. But, like, I see the boss lift his weapon way up and I go “I bet he’s going to swing. I should get out of the way.” Sure, there is an element to “I’ve seen this before - I know if I run behind him after the big butt stomp I can hit him easily”, but that’s hardly unique to fromsoft.
What sort of games don’t have enemies that you learn their moves? Like, you play Baldur’s Gate 3 and you learn “ok, that wizard has Sleep prepared, I should keep my HP up.” Or you play Hades and learn “ok, these guys like to charge but then take a second to recover”. This complaint is not unique to souls-likes but I don’t know if I’ve heard it brought against any other game.
It’s not unique to from soft games, but it is literally the entire games “difficulty”. They usually just give them extreme levels of health and make them do tonnes of damage so you have to make few mistakes in recognising and reacting to the patterns.
Its a big reason why I don’t care about single player action games.
It’s not a complaint to me, personally, but I can see how some folks might not like it. A similar feeling for me would be the way racing games are designed, with npcs having 5-10% extra acceleration, while you have 5-10% greater top speed, meaning that you have to be far better at keeping your speed up, which entails learning each race track very well compared to just being good at racing in general.
As to the bg3 or hades, yeah, completely agree. Using enemy patterns against them is one of those things where having played other games in the past means you can play this game better. Elden ring though, specifically adds in false timings and ‘gotcha’ mechanics that punish dodging at the wrong time, or in the wrong direction. It’s much more blatant than in the dark souls games. Melania and her butterfly dance, margit and his golden hammer swing, pause, swing, the crucible knight and his sword dragging on rocks AND his double tail swing and so on. Those aren’t bosses you just walk in and fight well the first time (well, margit is such a git, so maybe him).
Are people memorizing attack patterns? This one comes up a lot and I don’t really get it. The boss does a thing and I react, which is how most real time combat games are, I think?
I guess something like Skyrim you mostly just stand there and trade blows.
Yes, that’s how you’re reacting to the boss or any other enemies in games. You know that they do attack x, y, and z and then are vulnerable for 2 seconds, or which moves are parry-able to stun them, etc. Enemies in games have set move lists, and they have pre-set patterns and weak points etc.
For example when you see a skeleton you know exactly which moves and attacks patterns it has, and when to block/parry/strike to defeat them.
Memorizing attack patterns IS how you’re reacting though. How many of the bosses can you walk in and just wipe the floor with on the first try? You learn that a pull back to the right means you need to dodge left, now; a dash to the right means waiting two seconds, jumping, then dodging towards them; etc., etc.
I know for certain that when I go replay elden ring the only reason I can clear the tree sentinel as soon as I leave the cave is because I know just how to react to the boss’ “thing.”
A pretty good amount, though that’s confounded by playing lots of similar games over the years. But, like, I see the boss lift his weapon way up and I go “I bet he’s going to swing. I should get out of the way.” Sure, there is an element to “I’ve seen this before - I know if I run behind him after the big butt stomp I can hit him easily”, but that’s hardly unique to fromsoft.
What sort of games don’t have enemies that you learn their moves? Like, you play Baldur’s Gate 3 and you learn “ok, that wizard has Sleep prepared, I should keep my HP up.” Or you play Hades and learn “ok, these guys like to charge but then take a second to recover”. This complaint is not unique to souls-likes but I don’t know if I’ve heard it brought against any other game.
It’s not unique to from soft games, but it is literally the entire games “difficulty”. They usually just give them extreme levels of health and make them do tonnes of damage so you have to make few mistakes in recognising and reacting to the patterns.
Its a big reason why I don’t care about single player action games.
It’s not a complaint to me, personally, but I can see how some folks might not like it. A similar feeling for me would be the way racing games are designed, with npcs having 5-10% extra acceleration, while you have 5-10% greater top speed, meaning that you have to be far better at keeping your speed up, which entails learning each race track very well compared to just being good at racing in general.
As to the bg3 or hades, yeah, completely agree. Using enemy patterns against them is one of those things where having played other games in the past means you can play this game better. Elden ring though, specifically adds in false timings and ‘gotcha’ mechanics that punish dodging at the wrong time, or in the wrong direction. It’s much more blatant than in the dark souls games. Melania and her butterfly dance, margit and his golden hammer swing, pause, swing, the crucible knight and his sword dragging on rocks AND his double tail swing and so on. Those aren’t bosses you just walk in and fight well the first time (well, margit is such a git, so maybe him).