The belief in an objective reality is precisely what motivated the crusades, the nakba, and most other genocides. They believed in reality, and they believed their experience of the divine was objectively true for all others. Thus, that their actions were justified.
Peace will only happen when we admit that our perceptions aren’t objective. The gods who talk to us in our sleep exist because we believe in them, not because of an external reality. There’s no such thing, and admitting subjectivity is the only way to accept differences and make peace.
You’re welcome. I’m an anarcho-antirealist. You can read our manifesto at http://soulism.net/.
I firmly believe that reality is the “final boss” of leftism, and that no socialist movement will see long term success while we believe in reality. We live in a subjective world created by capitalist media, and we must seize the means of Creation - the social process of deciding what is true about our world. Whether it be interpreted as propaganda, spirituality, science, or law.
When we admit that the world is not objective, we take away the ability for leaders to control us with Creation. We weaken hierarchical religious structures, and strengthen collaborative systems like science.
I get ERR_CONNECTION_RESET when I try to look at the site.
I don’t know that I completely agree. Science suggests that there is an objective reality, it is our percepttion that is not objective.
Perception is reality, Plato’s Cave and all that.
Humans are mostly driven by emotion and using logic to make decisions, even only at the personal level, is difficult and rare. Leaders, political and religious, use that emotional thinking to consistently short circuit logic and rationality. They drive emotional thinking in whichever direction to achieve their goals, usually at the expense of the people.
Personally, I’ve had ‘good’ results over the last few years deliberately divorcing emotion from the decision process and just looking at the facts as best I am able to understand. Watching everyone around us going nuts: friends and family into Qanon and MAGAtry, vaccine denial, etc. It’s been painfully educational.
Best I can tell, most people are functionally illiterate and irrational. (Illiterate may not be the correct word, un-critical maybe?)
I now think that most people of the left are the same, maybe a little better. Tankies here on Lemmy are a great example, they’re so emotional that their brains have fallen out. I fall firmly on the left even if I think that most of us aren’t really thinking and are actually working off what feels correct.
So, while I do think there is objective reality, I don’t think most people are even trying to work off it. I’m not sure that we can. So, functionally, reality is pretty subjective.
I do know that, personally, I’m driven to try and gain as accurate a worldview as possible given the facts and science available to me.
I have almost no mysticism left in me. I do feel awe at the natural world, the cosmos, my love for my people. I’m comfortable allowing that feeling guide some of my decisions. I don’t think much personal harm will come from a deep respect of nature, for instance.
After losing my religion, I have defined my life’s purpose as taking care of my people. It’s arbitrary and emotional, but it brings me comfort.
Whoops, I’m too used to typing an S in web addresses. The link should work now.
I think people are trying to work off of objective reality, and that’s a problem. For example, TERFs correctly understand that gender identity is subjective, but they make the mistake of thinking sex is objective. Because they’re committed to working off objective reality, they believe sex is more important than gender, and dismiss gender. Thus, all their transphobia. If they didn’t believe in reality, they wouldn’t be TERFs. They’d value the subjective construct of sex and the subjective construct of gender identity equally in terms of truth, and recognise that gender identity is important to our wellbeing. I wish people didn’t try to follow reality.
It’s still not loading for me. Getting a white screen with a stuck load bar. Haven’t tried it on a computer, just android. Maybe just post it here?
I agree that most people think they’re working off reality. I generally think I’m working off reality, but then if you think about how little we actually percieve, we have a very dim view of reality. Extend this to the universe and beyond, and all our knowledge is a tiny rounding error that vanishes into zero.
All that being said, this isn’t really anything you can live by. At least I can’t. Most metaphysics are so much shit on a prick and untestable. My favorite is the simulation hypothesis, and one day we’ll all live happily ever after in the computer. Not that it any way applies to my daily life.
Gravity still works, the sun will rise tomorrow, and vaccines generally reduce your risk of catching diseaes. So, I proceed with my best understanding of reality as I experience it. I try to force myself to face facts and change my mind given evidence.
So, back to the original topic. Here’s a theroy: holding power and wealth in modern society may not be strongly correlated with an accurate view of objective reality but is strongly correlated in stronglybelieving you have an accurate view of objective reality. It also helps if you’re a motherfucker that’s willing to grind the bones of babies under your boots to get what you want.
As far as human society goes and the mutability of things like gender, money; mostly social constructs related to culture that has just grown by chance.
I do think we can point to some things that are pretty foundational to human culture, might even be impossible to remove: We’re omnivorous primates that evolved into small family/tribal groups of 50-100 individuals. We sexually reproduce through pairing by individuals that usually have a heterosexual preference. Those offspring benefit from at least the semi-monogamy of their parents. They benefit from their family/tribe which includes individuals that don’t conform to the most common gender/sexual habits.
That being said, we don’t have to conform to that. Society can be whatever we make it, maybe. Maybe not, I don’t have a crystal ball, there may be limitations on how you can style society barring genetic modification or brain surgery or something.
You sound very arrogant, quick to call others irrational and driven by emotion while having exactly zero self awareness and doing exactly zero self analysis.
You don’t actually have any interest in rationality or objectively, that would require you to confront your own biased and understand the reasoning of people you disagree with, you just use the mantra to license yourself to asset that the things you already emotionally believed are true and those that disagree can be dismissed and ignored.
You realized people have subjective perspectives and used that to go “wow, everyone who disagrees with me is insane and emotional! Their brains have fallen out!”
You are the very person you’re so condescendingly railing against, mate. Get the fucking log out of your eye and learn some humility.
This is what you consider “deliberately divorcing emotion from the decision process and just looking at the facts as best I am able to understand.”? Just completely emotional ranting and personal attacks?
They believed in reality, and they believed their experience of the divine was objectively true for all others. Thus, that their actions were justified.
yeah, I agree they were deranged by deities. fancy way of putting it tho.
Peace will only happen when we admit that our perceptions aren’t objective. The gods who talk to us in our sleep exist because we believe in them, not because of an external reality. .
ohhhh… aaahh… uhhhm… NO thanks, you keep your sleepy whisper invisible friends to yourself mate, I’m good
Money is a god. It has no existence in the physical world. In the physical world, it’s just paper, common metals, and bytes. But in the social world, it’s the arbiter of law, morality, life, and death. It controls all of society. I can’t think of a better example of a god.
You may be aware that money isn’t truly real, but you still engage in its rituals, live life as it demands. It has become your social reality. We must acknowledge that all things are subjective, so we can destroy them if they do wrong. There is no objective truth, we decide our world.
The belief in an objective reality is precisely what motivated the crusades, the nakba, and most other genocides. They believed in reality, and they believed their experience of the divine was objectively true for all others. Thus, that their actions were justified.
Peace will only happen when we admit that our perceptions aren’t objective. The gods who talk to us in our sleep exist because we believe in them, not because of an external reality. There’s no such thing, and admitting subjectivity is the only way to accept differences and make peace.
Now, that’s a different angle on viewing these things. Or at least I’ve never heard it phrased that way. Interesting. Thanks for the insight!
You’re welcome. I’m an anarcho-antirealist. You can read our manifesto at http://soulism.net/.
I firmly believe that reality is the “final boss” of leftism, and that no socialist movement will see long term success while we believe in reality. We live in a subjective world created by capitalist media, and we must seize the means of Creation - the social process of deciding what is true about our world. Whether it be interpreted as propaganda, spirituality, science, or law.
When we admit that the world is not objective, we take away the ability for leaders to control us with Creation. We weaken hierarchical religious structures, and strengthen collaborative systems like science.
ah ok, you go fight the matrix there buddy. sure thing.
I get ERR_CONNECTION_RESET when I try to look at the site.
I don’t know that I completely agree. Science suggests that there is an objective reality, it is our percepttion that is not objective.
Perception is reality, Plato’s Cave and all that.
Humans are mostly driven by emotion and using logic to make decisions, even only at the personal level, is difficult and rare. Leaders, political and religious, use that emotional thinking to consistently short circuit logic and rationality. They drive emotional thinking in whichever direction to achieve their goals, usually at the expense of the people.
Personally, I’ve had ‘good’ results over the last few years deliberately divorcing emotion from the decision process and just looking at the facts as best I am able to understand. Watching everyone around us going nuts: friends and family into Qanon and MAGAtry, vaccine denial, etc. It’s been painfully educational.
Best I can tell, most people are functionally illiterate and irrational. (Illiterate may not be the correct word, un-critical maybe?)
I now think that most people of the left are the same, maybe a little better. Tankies here on Lemmy are a great example, they’re so emotional that their brains have fallen out. I fall firmly on the left even if I think that most of us aren’t really thinking and are actually working off what feels correct.
So, while I do think there is objective reality, I don’t think most people are even trying to work off it. I’m not sure that we can. So, functionally, reality is pretty subjective.
I do know that, personally, I’m driven to try and gain as accurate a worldview as possible given the facts and science available to me.
I have almost no mysticism left in me. I do feel awe at the natural world, the cosmos, my love for my people. I’m comfortable allowing that feeling guide some of my decisions. I don’t think much personal harm will come from a deep respect of nature, for instance.
After losing my religion, I have defined my life’s purpose as taking care of my people. It’s arbitrary and emotional, but it brings me comfort.
Whoops, I’m too used to typing an S in web addresses. The link should work now.
I think people are trying to work off of objective reality, and that’s a problem. For example, TERFs correctly understand that gender identity is subjective, but they make the mistake of thinking sex is objective. Because they’re committed to working off objective reality, they believe sex is more important than gender, and dismiss gender. Thus, all their transphobia. If they didn’t believe in reality, they wouldn’t be TERFs. They’d value the subjective construct of sex and the subjective construct of gender identity equally in terms of truth, and recognise that gender identity is important to our wellbeing. I wish people didn’t try to follow reality.
Late response, busy few days.
It’s still not loading for me. Getting a white screen with a stuck load bar. Haven’t tried it on a computer, just android. Maybe just post it here?
I agree that most people think they’re working off reality. I generally think I’m working off reality, but then if you think about how little we actually percieve, we have a very dim view of reality. Extend this to the universe and beyond, and all our knowledge is a tiny rounding error that vanishes into zero.
All that being said, this isn’t really anything you can live by. At least I can’t. Most metaphysics are so much shit on a prick and untestable. My favorite is the simulation hypothesis, and one day we’ll all live happily ever after in the computer. Not that it any way applies to my daily life.
Gravity still works, the sun will rise tomorrow, and vaccines generally reduce your risk of catching diseaes. So, I proceed with my best understanding of reality as I experience it. I try to force myself to face facts and change my mind given evidence.
So, back to the original topic. Here’s a theroy: holding power and wealth in modern society may not be strongly correlated with an accurate view of objective reality but is strongly correlated in strongly believing you have an accurate view of objective reality. It also helps if you’re a motherfucker that’s willing to grind the bones of babies under your boots to get what you want.
As far as human society goes and the mutability of things like gender, money; mostly social constructs related to culture that has just grown by chance.
I do think we can point to some things that are pretty foundational to human culture, might even be impossible to remove: We’re omnivorous primates that evolved into small family/tribal groups of 50-100 individuals. We sexually reproduce through pairing by individuals that usually have a heterosexual preference. Those offspring benefit from at least the semi-monogamy of their parents. They benefit from their family/tribe which includes individuals that don’t conform to the most common gender/sexual habits.
That being said, we don’t have to conform to that. Society can be whatever we make it, maybe. Maybe not, I don’t have a crystal ball, there may be limitations on how you can style society barring genetic modification or brain surgery or something.
Have to get some shit done. I’ll read through later and respond.
You could just respond with an unrelated photo again, that would save time.
Bless your heart. Go play quietly in your room, the adults are talking.
Lol, yeah, you’re a real rational adult.
Idiot
You sound very arrogant, quick to call others irrational and driven by emotion while having exactly zero self awareness and doing exactly zero self analysis.
You don’t actually have any interest in rationality or objectively, that would require you to confront your own biased and understand the reasoning of people you disagree with, you just use the mantra to license yourself to asset that the things you already emotionally believed are true and those that disagree can be dismissed and ignored.
You realized people have subjective perspectives and used that to go “wow, everyone who disagrees with me is insane and emotional! Their brains have fallen out!”
You are the very person you’re so condescendingly railing against, mate. Get the fucking log out of your eye and learn some humility.
You’re certainly not beating the accusation that you’re emotionally driven and arrogant. Just completely irrational response there.
You’re so close. So close. Brain in a box…
I’m not convinced you’re not doing some sort of elaborate troll as you prove my point so well.
If it is a troll, you’re a fucking master of your craft. You work so well against the things you claim to believe.
This is what you consider “deliberately divorcing emotion from the decision process and just looking at the facts as best I am able to understand.”? Just completely emotional ranting and personal attacks?
yeah, I agree they were deranged by deities. fancy way of putting it tho.
ohhhh… aaahh… uhhhm… NO thanks, you keep your sleepy whisper invisible friends to yourself mate, I’m good
Money is a god. It has no existence in the physical world. In the physical world, it’s just paper, common metals, and bytes. But in the social world, it’s the arbiter of law, morality, life, and death. It controls all of society. I can’t think of a better example of a god.
You may be aware that money isn’t truly real, but you still engage in its rituals, live life as it demands. It has become your social reality. We must acknowledge that all things are subjective, so we can destroy them if they do wrong. There is no objective truth, we decide our world.